The Imperium and the Road to Serfdom


The need for the Imperium ceased over a year ago, with the release of Phoebe. N3 disintegrated while NC. and PL both lost the majority of their rental empires. Even if every major power in nullsec combined their forces, they likely wouldn’t have the strength to defeat the Imperium. So what is the point in its continued existence?

Thanks to their leadership, structure and consolidation, the Imperium have been able to survive Phoebe and Aegis sov where others perished. Thus, although it is easy to see how the Imperium has survived, it’s not clear why. As no force can contest them, they no longer have a raison d’etre. Aside from the countless carebears and krabs in the Imperium, its preservation benefits one man in particular: The Mittani. Russian leaders of old used traditional and illegal RMT methods to make money, whereas The Mittani has come up with an ingenious way to do it completely legally. The past few weeks have highlighted this perfectly.

“H1Z1 was relentlessly promoted by Goonswarm leadership through TMC, Twitter and Jabber to the Imperium and wider Eve community…”

The first example of cash-grabbing by the Imperium came in May. In a deal with John Smedley, CEO of Daybreak Games (formerly SoE) and friend of The Mittani, people who signed up for the game through were given free exclusive items. H1Z1 was relentlessly promoted by Goonswarm leadership through TMC, Twitter and Jabber to the Imperium and wider Eve community for well over a month, likely in exchange for a fair amount of money. It was also decided that the CFC wasn’t a great name for monetisation, so the coalition rebranded itself as Imperium.

Encouraging players to put down Eve and buy H1Z1 was justified by stating that the primary goal of the ‘invasion’ was to recruit players from the game then bring them over to Eve. As far as I know this had very little success. However, I’m willing to bet the campaign succeeded in making fat stacks for The Mittani.  

Fountain War

Then came the Fountain War book. Although I’m not opposed to the book in itself, and I do believe the book will be unbiased, the $150,000 funding goal raises some questions. According to the page none of the money will end up going to ‘The Mittani Media’, the official company behind the project, which prompts me to ask why it is being so fanatically promoted. There’s been numerous Imperium broadcasts about it daily, articles written to promote it and during a time clicking any part of the background on TMC would take you to the kickstarter page.

There are reasons The Mittani is promoting the book, and although attracting fresh meat may be in his interest, it is definitely not his primary focus. The Eve history book promises to bring in a lot more players than Jeff Edward’s publication, and I don’t remember the background of becoming one great hyperlink to the kickstarter page for that. Nor can I recall them posting an article when some generic podcaster announced their support towards it. If The Mittani was doing this to bring in new players, he would have suggested CCP take it up rather than do it privately.

“…the most damning evidence yet that the coalition is redundant.”

When the Imperium declared an invasion of Cloud Ring we were confronted with the most damning evidence yet that the coalition is redundant. I used to quite enjoy The Mittani’s war speeches, when the foe was real, there was an actual threat and there would be an actual war. However, this one was just delusional, filled with mirages of enemies in a desperate attempt to create content, all while giving publicity to the kickstarter. It started off by claiming people sceptical of the Fountain War book were actively trying to kill the game by starving it of new players the book would bring in.

You’ll notice the irony here. After claiming that people were trying to kill the Imperium by driving new players away because they refused to kickstart a book, The Mittani declares war primarily on a 2.2k man alliance that is mostly composed of new players. It was justified because ‘we also have a new player friendly corp’, with this rather hilarious post from a director in Karmafleet. Although Pandemic Horde are branded as cowards for retreating when outnumbered 15-1, I’m willing to wager newbies there have had a more meaningful experience than those in Karmafleet.

He also points out a fair few times that this represents an existential threat to the Imperium’s existence. A nullsec coalition of 3k members, primarily composed of newbies, along with a loose band of lowsec alliances, cannot pose a threat to a coalition of 40,000 members with hundreds of titans and thousands of capitals no matter how hard you spin it. He observes that ‘we have seen this pattern before’, where a large force masses up on the border then declares war on the Imperium, á la HBC and various times before that. These occurred before Phoebe and Aegis sov; it’s no longer possible for alliances with sov to abandon the home front in the knowledge it will be safe. Even PL and NC. combined can’t seriously challenge them.

So the Imperium will easily take Cloud Ring and maybe do some damage to infrastructure in lowsec, but what then?

“The sad truth is that no one can contest the Imperium.”

The sad truth is that no one can contest the Imperium. Although disappointing for people in nullsec, it’s worse for the members of the Imperium. What’s the point in logging in when the 1,000 people in your coalition’s fleets will be able to capture X structure with no resistance regardless of whether you’re there or not? What’s the point in moving your ships to the staging system when your superior, organised force of 40,000 is going to war against an inferior, scattered group of 5,000? What’s the point in being a member of a coalition which can never lose a war?

If you’re a humble line member of FCON who loves ratting all day I guess you’d be fine with that; the stability the Imperium offers is a good thing. It’s a mutually beneficial relationship – The Mittani gives you space, you allow him to continue making money. But consider this: There are pilots just like you in nullsec, who actually contribute to something and make an impact on the map when they log in. They likely fight for a leader who commits his time to the game to make content for you and your comrades, rather than one who does so to make real money. Any Imperium alliance could survive outside the coalition and enjoy a more fun and meaningful existence. We’ve even seen an individual corporation (Black Omega Security), kicked from Goonswarm for lack of contribution, go on to become a relevant player in Syndicate.

The evolution of Goonswarm and the Imperium over the past decade is truly fascinating. Goonfleet originally established itself as being a carefree group of players fighting ‘elite PVP’ types and those who took the game too seriously. Truthfully, what is the difference between alliances in the Imperium in the present day and the very people they swore to destroy?



Tags: cfc, Cloud Ring, Goonfleet, goonswarm, pandemic horde, The Imperium, Tubrug

About the author


Tubrug1 started playing Eve in 2010, but didn’t actually do anything of note until 2013 when he founded the Eve Onion. @Tubrug1 on Twitter.

  • Kamar Raimo

    The most absurd statement in that SOTG was the repeated claim that “those people” (meaning the ones in Cloud Ring and their allies) are trying to destroy the game by destroying the Goons and they are busy with that for a decade already.

    Quite delusional considering that the majority of players in PH and Northern Army come from BNI and have probably not been in EVE longer than since 2012.

    • snuttan

      No, “those people” refer to anyone opposing the cfc. This is just like every other sotg. Pointing out that every one is out to destroy the cfc and it is time to take a subset of our enemies and crush them. So the rhetoric of the sotg is alwaya the same. It is just the names that change (and in reality they almost never do that either, same group of coalition leaders controlling nullsec politics for years).

      • Kamar Raimo

        It’s Mittan’s obsession with the spectre of BoB. Everyone is always implicated as “those guys who once wanted to destroy us some eight years ago, look some of them are now with NC, or PL or MC”.

        I loved how he called it the “so called MC” BTW, that group who was around before the first Goon ever logged into EVE. BTW, in my opinion, the MC turning against BoB was what really sent them reeling, so Mittens should probably thank Seleene.

    • Andreus

      Goons think if they’re destroyed, it’ll destroy the game?

      Hell, even if they were right (they aren’t) it’d almost be worth it.

  • Jaxley

    Wouldn’t have expected this kind of half-baked propaganda here.

    • Boris

      well sed!

      • Niden

        Well spelled.

    • Niden

      Disprove any of it. Please.

      • snuttan

        As I remember it rhe purpose of zombie game invasion was not to recruit more eve players. It was an attempt to transpose the existing social structure of cfc into that game. Eve was stagnant from cfc perspective at the time and zombie game invasion was promoted as ~content~ to keep the masses together. This was at least the narrative fed to me. True or not, no idea, but it might be one of many intentions behind the promotion. If such a transposition would work, the existing power heirarchy would survive even if eve did not. Personally, I prefer to keep my various games and in-game overlords separate.

      • Rob

        “Although disappointing for people in nullsec, it’s worse for the members of the Imperium.”
        I’m in the Imperium and I’m not disappointed. Done.

        The thing you fail to realise is that as a member of the Imperium we have access to all types of content with relative ease. Nothing stops us from going out and having some small scale PvP and we often have big old battles to join in on too and every type of PvE under the sun.

        The suggestion being put across here is that we are all poor content-starved minions, but the truth is that we have far more options for content than anywhere else. Does Mittani profit from it? Most likely, yes, but it’s a mutual benefit. He wouldn’t very well be able to keep this many people on board if they weren’t enjoying their gameplay when they stick around.

        • Talvorian Dex

          Then you either have low standards or have been sanitized into thinking what passes for content in the Imperium is meaningful. I could only take so many high-sec ganks and cloaky hot drops before I had to go find real content.

          • Max

            I think what you fail to realize is each alliance under the cfc umbrella have there own culture and ways of creating content. Added to that, cfc as a whole has a whole different level of content creation with its Sig’s and coalition wide goals. My friends and alliance mates have plenty fun and we don’t Hi sec gank.. To each there own fun be had. I have mine.

          • Niden

            Yep, agree with this. I mean for the CFC the Provi campaign counted as a shitload of content, whereas in lowsec that would be an average week. Like I said in another comment, Goons, for example, have about 0.7 kills per member per month, that kinda puts things into perspective.

          • Rob

            Or what you consider “real content” is simply different from other people. Sure, I could be triple warp stabbed in a FW plex or hiding in the docking ring of a station with multiple neutral logi looking for “gudfites”, but I much prefer larger slower moving larger scale battles with the option for smaller scale roams as and when I feel like it intersperse with medium risk PvE.

            The simple fact is that whether you appreciate it or not thousands of people including myself enjoy the gameplay we have. Now if you want to pretend that’s because Mittani is a psychological supergenius and has – over the internet no less – convinced thousands of us to play a game in a way we hate, then that’s your problem. I’ll stick with reality thanks.

        • Anoron Secheh

          I’m with you on that sentiment. I have fun doing my own thing while participating in coalition fleets. Yeah the jumping through mindnumbing tidi part isn’t fun, but I had fun having our fcs headshot one by one by seniority and still coming together as monkeys and tackling shit until friends come to mop up.

        • Danmal

          Two questions:

          1. How would a poor content-starved minion who lacks the counterfactual (that is, good content), possibly know whether he is content-starved?
          2. How could a happy minion who does not experience his EVEsistence to be content-starved or does not know good content possibly suffer from being content-starved?

          I believe it was Apothne (apologies if it was somebody else) who wrote recently that Goons essentially “won” the game by making it boring for everyone, including themselves. Now that leaves four prospects for the future:
          1. Some CFC alliances hemorrhaging activity or users, so that they have to leave or disband if they want to remain viable. That’s the scenario of CFC falling apart from the inside. The waging of war on low sec already seems desperate to me.
          2. CFC being totally happy with the spot they and the game are in. In that case I would think that the game will continue to hemorrhage activity and users. In other words, they might bring down the house and be totally happy with it (as long as Mittens can make enough dough of cross-selling the CFC other games). Bye EVE. It was nice knowing you.
          3. Other alliances reassessing the strength of goons and ganging up. If they don’t have the numbers that they have on paper because boring or driving ships or tanks or zombies, then they are less strong than they appear. Their PVP capability on a per player basis is abysmal anyway. (One might add at this point that PL beating up the only entity that was a medium to long-term threat to the CFC probably didn’t help to keep null things fresh either.)
          4. Hope for CCPls to break up boring by whatever means they need to take for the game to survive.

          All that said, the CFC’s organizational capability to keep things together and members in line/engaged (?) is nothing but impressive.

          • Rob

            “How would a poor content-starved minion who lacks the counterfactual
            (that is, good content), possibly know whether he is content-starved?”
            Perhaps because I can tell when I’m enjoying playing a game, and wouldn’t be playing otherwise, thus know I have at least enough content to guarantee me the entertainment I pay for. Or how about because I played EVE for many years before being a member of the Imperium so I know what color the grass is on the other side.

            the thing is, the moment I’m no longer enjoying the game and being in the Imperium, I’m not going to be an Imperium member any more. But from my wealth of experience and my current game activities I don’t expect that to happen any time soon.

      • Jaxley

        I didn’t dispute anything in the first place. ^^

        Just saying that this is a pretty bland propaganda piece.

        • Niden

          Propaganda of what exactly? Because I honestly have no clue.

        • Azzataky

          I recently came back after some time, many people say null is dead. Imperium has so many people who could’ve been fighting each other and others hence have so much more fun. But they horde isks and blueball so they are sure nobody can defeat them.

          But as one of main goon FCs said, CFC will end. Funny thing is that if people want to destroy CFC they should deny them fights, not fight them. Like PH did in Could Ring, I bet that shooting structures was so much fun for them. 😀

        • callduron

          It’s got way more comments than any other piece here.

          • Jaxley

            Yeah. :c

  • Duckman

    You know it could be these people like playing together and so matter what changes you throw at them they will want to keep that community going. I don’t think anyone could have stood up to these guys since the Great War. Every war thereafter was fought by the same groups that kept the same failed leadership and predictably ran away or turned on each other each war.

    • Kamar Raimo

      It isn’t that long that the Goons were at the center of s superpower. After the Great War they weren’t doing all that great. Their rise to true power only began after they picked up the pieces that were left when the old NC collapsed.

      Also, it’s simply not fun to fight a war against an adversary who is not only powerful but also will take every effort to make the war as miserable as they possibly can.

      • A. Friend

        Working as intended.

        The question isn’t whether or not the Imperium can hold Cloud Ring, but how long it can hold it. My guess is not very long. PVE in the area sucks, and most likely they don’t want to bother giving the Horde “good fights” in the future.

        Imperium’s power is also a bit over stated. It extends only so far as large structures within reach of its super capital fleets, and as far as Sov within reach of the number of its pilots willing to defend against “guerrilla” forces.

        Low sec is immune to them as well since people can dock up whenever outnumbered.

    • IC Wiener

      I think people misunderstand that the Fountain War wasn’t just a slam-dunk for the CFC, and in fact if it weren’t for a lot of espionage successes Mittens + co could very well have lost the war.

      • Seraph IX Basarab

        TEST was a paper tiger with no real leadership. Most of the talent/leaders had already joined PL. PL was only giving half baked support along with N3. Yeah it was pretty much the CFC’s to lose if anything.

        • cloaky sniper raven

          This is known.

  • AFK

    I’m coming round to the opinion that if Mittani wants to take his bunch of now mostly pets and pubbies (99% of whom I’m sure he wouldn’t piss on if they were on fire), waste their time and take their money, then, good luck to him. They obviously have too much of both.

    • Trumpetbutt

      He definitely wouldn’t piss on any shitlords. Here’s to hoping you don’t catch fire.

      • SkepticNerdGuy

        Thats interesting that you mention this, because when one of our member got cancer and things turned for the worst he pinged for weeks about him, raised awareness throughout the game and we collectively raised something like 17 grand for his familiy’s medical expenses. Here’s hoping you don’t catch fire man.

  • Boris
  • X

    Horde is not just newbros…why do people say that? They are backed 100% by Waffles and Legion…the PanFam works together

    • Azzataky

      Sometimes. But mostly its a bunch of newbies and spies that barely can fly t1 logi. 😀

  • GrouchyOldGamer

    Isn’t the most successful promotional video for the kickstarter book the one featuring the most famous member of PL? Deadly enemies indeed.

    I don’t have a problem with Mittens monetising the CFC player base – if people want to pay money into a community they are invested in that’s their business. Good luck to them, their money – their fun.

    Although there have been examples where in-game threats of expulsion have been used to stop people contributing to other community projects which compete (in a minor way) with TMC – which is probably taking it too far.

    I think the wider point is well made. The biggest threat to the CFC is people simply not bringing them content. Which is why I chuckle at people like Gevlon funding guerilla wars against Goons, if he really wanted to hurt them he’d pay them nor to hunt them in their homelands.

  • Angelique Duchemin

    It’s no great mystery why the Imperium exists in a world where it has no equal in power. Because the people that make up the Imperium have spent so many years together that they became friends. They don’t want to kill one another. Or rather there’s never any lack of other people that they would rather kill. Is friendship such a foreign concept?

    • Talvorian Dex

      I call BS on that. Perhaps the leaders became friends, but the alliances of the Imperium suffered an endless revolving door. That and no real combined culture outside of fleets disproves your argument. If you’re not a director or CEO, that’s simply not true.

      • SkepticNerdGuy

        Really? I play eve with friends, and happen to be in goonswarm, and here you are telling me I have no friends within the alliance? Friends that I’ve shared beers with, or hung out with outside of game because, well wait for it… I met them in game. The only revolving door are the individual player activities within game, because life happens. Also, I’m not a CEO or director or anything.

        • Ryu

          no, he is saying that you cant possibly be friends with 40k people and more so when the main alliance (goonswarm) harasses others for being terrible (fa in the past, fcon sma now).

          • SkepticNerdGuy

            I do have plenty of friends that are outside of the main alliance, including SMA and FCON. Just a wild guess, are you talking about the “reset/kick FCON, SMA, *insert CFC alliance*” jokes? In that case, I’ve seen those since I joined the game, and I would understand that they might get annoying, but just that, annoying bad jokes. I work in an environment where you get bad jokes that might even come across as harassment like this. Because of it I recognize it for what they are and become a little more thick skinned.

          • Ryu

            dont talk to me about that, im in PL, but i know people can be genuinely annoyed by such cases, because not everyone can tolerate that kind of “humor”. Especially when you are indeed bad and others call you bad for fun as well.

          • SkepticNerdGuy

            I do get genuinely annoyed by that humor, I just distance myself from it and never use it. I don’t in any way condone the behavior. But what can I do? Quit because people say mean things? And I mean this for both in game and out.

          • Ryu

            that goes to prove my point, if you were sma and fcon (when its targeting you) you choose to ignore it, its not like everyone is your friend, its just mutual interest that the alliances are blue. OFC there are gonna be many friends in other alliances but that doesnt mean you A) have to be 100% blue with them B) you cant go to war with them or even lighter split from them. Many great alliances and corporations have done that in the past.

          • Angelique Duchemin

            Because we are truly terrible at Eve. FCON are terrible. SMA are terrible. Goonswarm are the worst of all and we admit that. But we keep showing up for the war long after our elite pvp enemies get bored and disband. We win through sheer tenacity. But regardless of how terrible we are. We still manage to have fun with one another.

          • callduron

            Those cliches are looking awfully trite.

        • Talvorian Dex

          Not BS on your playstyle, but BS on this being the key reason why the CFC as a conglomerate exists.

          • SkepticNerdGuy

            Of course it is, the leaders became friends. Most of the leaders that I have met in person (not that many to be honest, but those I have) have incredible interpersonal and networking skills and are incredibly easy to get along with. Which is exactly why the alliance exists in the way it does. I feel like your trying to imply that some of the alliances are in it for the dependency of the group to survive only. (safety and profit give up freedoms?) while that may be so for some, I doubt that it would last so long if it was the only reason. I think people would burn out more quickly if that were only the case. Are you in or were you ever in CFC? have you seen what the SIGs do? They create relationships and smaller groups within the coalition as a whole, I think this is one of the keys to the success of this coalition. Not just the leadership.

      • cloaky sniper raven

        Wrong again. We have found a home and friends we like which we DO meet outside of fleets, even outside of EVE in RL. We have fun. Period. Most of my friends now are also from France and Germany and Sweden and Italy and Croatia and Australia and The UK and Canada and of course the good old USA.

        The only thing that actually makes me sad is that the other coalitions and alliances gave up trying.

    • AFK

      It’s a fucking computer game, you aren’t literally killing your friends lmao

      • Kamar Raimo

        Too many people lose sight of that way too often in this game … all over the coalitions, alliances and corporations.

    • callduron

      The Jabberlon5 crowd are all famously friends with each other.

      It’s a game. If you play Chess with someone does that mean they’re not your friend.

  • Messiah Complex

    I’m a Hordeling, and I’ve been enjoying all the mockery that the latest SOTG spawned. But I can’t abide the stupidity of telling people in the unassailable coalition that they can’t possibly be having fun playing EVE their way.

    • Niden

      Oh come on, how is CFC line member life “fun”? Even plenty of them say that it’s horrible but that they can’t do anything about it because that would mean abandoning their friends. The average kills per month for a Goon is 0.7. Even compensating for the fact that many people don’t PvP, that’s horrible.

      • Messiah Complex

        This is exactly the shit I’m talking about. The notion of “plenty” of people within a group of thousands is completely meaningless. I have no doubt that the coalition has *plenty* of disaffected members (and some have even left), but should what should I infer from that? That most CFC members are disaffected? That a significant minority of CFC members are disaffected?

        The answer is “no” on both counts. It would be ridiculous to draw any inference based on your anecdotal evidence.

        And if ‘average kills per month’ was representative of general happiness in EVE, a huge swath of the player base would be miserable. It’s another meaningless metric.

        • Niden

          Except it’s not anecdotal because I speak to people from within the CFC on a regular basis, from line member to leadership. What is the basis of your argument besides being arrogant and calling people who don’t agree with you stupid? So far I haven’t seen none. And kills per member is not a meaningless statistic. It’s a PvP game. If PvP is not happening, given the number of PvP-ers that should statistically be present within Goonswarm Federation, there is a problem.

          • Gosh

            Being an Imperium member I too speak to a lot of Imperium members and the vast majority enjoy being in the Imperium. And kill per members is irrelevant. The game has a lot more to it that straight PvP. I have multiple characters in the Imperium, most never PvP as they are alts. The ones that do run logi so never show up in killboards. So my “fun factor” by your reckoning would be zero, yet here I am having fun every day.

            At the end of the day both the post and the comments here read like heavily biased propaganda and nothing more. What the aim of it is I have no idea. What are you expecting, line members to say “well he says we’re not having fun so we obviously aren’t * ragequit*”?

          • Niden

            So because _you_ have alts and mostly do logi that means that kills are a irrelevant statistic? What I’m saying here is that even with the average disposition of people who do PvP and those that don’t, 0.7 is ridiculously low when compared to other players.

          • Rob

            You seem to have missed his point. You’re claiming that from kill stats you can determine that CFC line members are having no fun, yet his first hand experience which tells him they are having fun means nothing. The only thing the killstats tell you is there are less kills per player in the imperium than other coalitions. That’s it. Anything you deduce beyond that is pure speculation, yet you drum it in like it’s a proven fact because you have an agenda.

          • Niden

            That’s hilarious, what agenda would that be?

          • Rob

            Who knows, it’s your agenda, but it’s obvious from your posting style and how adamant you are that noone in the Imperium can possibly be having fun that there’s something you’re trying to push. Perhaps you’re trying (badly) to sow seeds of discontent or perhaps it’s to try to convince people outside of the Imperium not to join.

            I suppose the simplest way to find out would be for you to just have a good long think about it and ask yourself why you really want to believe, and want others to believe, that the propaganda you are pushing is actually true. What outcome is it you are aiming for? When you figure it out, let me know.

          • Niden

            Again, you are dealing in absolutes, the surefire way to turn any debate into a shitposting session. Don’t put words in my mouth. I never claimed that “no one in the Imeprium is having fun”, I know several people personally that are having fun. The idea that I’m trying to sow “seeds of discontent” is as narrow-minded and far-fetched as it is absurd and tribalist. I don’t need to sow anything, even if that was my intent. The discontent is already there, as evidenced by conversations I have had with CFC members over the years, from line member to leadership, as well as recent departures from the CFC – specifically the motivations behind said departures and the changes in activity and motivation afterward.

            I want everyone in EVE to have a good time, including every last person in the CFC. However, something is has gone wrong and people are suffering for it. Frankly that you would rather jump to the conclusion that I would debate this out of some deep-seeded need to sow discontent or that I have some kind of “agenda” is insulting, and quite frankly paranoid.

          • Rob

            You are literally telling Imperium members that they are wrong when they claim to be having fun. All you’re doing is presenting a small amount of anecdotal evidence from a few people you have spoken to and claiming that speaks for the Imperium as a whole. I can tell you from first hand experience and countless conversations with hundreds of Imperium members that what you are talking about is a very small minority.

            It’s clear you have a serious bias which make most of what you say irrelevant. To be quite honest a pretty good indicator for this is your continued reference to “CFC”. Whatever is said here you’re going to continue to claim that there’s no agenda, but your actions tell another story. Read back through your own posts and see that this thread was spawned by you telling an Imperium member that they are wrong about their claim that they are having fun because an arbitrary statistic you have chosen proves it so.

          • Niden

            Yep, this isn’t working out, you have a already made up your mind that I’m driven by some form of sinister grr goons agenda and nothing I say will change your mind. So I will just bow out.

          • Messiah Complex

            I would guess you’re trolling for site traffic.

          • Arrendis

            Hi. Let me introduce you to the people who aren’t on your metric whatsoever.

            I’m a dedicated logi pilot. My last kills were over 3 months ago, when I was flying a HIC because we needed another heavy entosis ship. None of my alts have any kills whatsoever. I’m far from the only person like me.

            You’re also conflating going to war with a hunger for PvP. I went to Providence, and spent over 50 hours in fleets over the 4 days of fighting. I didn’t do it because I’m ‘hungry for PvP’. I did it because that’s my job in this Coalition. I’m part of a team, and a team only works when everyone’s doing their job. The fact that I show up, and do my job when it’s necessary, is what lets me be a flake most of the time.

            Now, sure, you can get on the ‘lol, EVE is a game, it’s not supposed to be a job’, but really, if you think that, you’re nuts. EVE’s a game, yes. The people I deal with every day? They’re not a game, and by flying with them, I’ve made a commitment to those people. I take my commitments seriously. There are plenty of people who don’t. There are plenty of people who feel it’s perfectly ok to leave their ‘friends’ hanging and fuck off because they’re bored.

            I got no use for those people. I don’t take EVE seriously. EVE is a bullshit game with bullshit gameplay that really needs a serious overhaul if it’s going to be more fun than watching paint dry, half the time. But I do take people seriously.

            So I go to war when it’s time to go to war. And during wartime, I generally log 2-16 hrs/day in fleets (yeah, there’s a wide range). Bottom line? Your philosophy, Horatio… there’s a hell of a lot more playstyles in New Eden than you seem to dream of.

          • Joe

            I think the fact that so many players remain in the cfc prices many are having fun. The really aren’t that many options for people who like to mine and don’t want to bother with wormholes. Allot of provi block do the whole Nrds. Other null sec corps just want you to pay them to mine in there space. Cfc definitely seems the most obvious answer for them. There are other options but you have to dig. And yes some players do just want to rat. Again there are other options but you have to dig around. Alliances will say they want you to participate. But without a number of pap links it is hard to know what exactly the expectation is.

          • Messiah Complex

            You should probably learn what anecdotal evidence is before you write anything further.

            You’re looking at this exclusively through the lens of how you play the game. You’re assuming no one else could be having fun with the game unless they’re playing it the way you are. And you call me arrogant.

          • Niden

            Testemony from CFC members, statistics and recent events compiled together form a rather solid picture. You’re trying to force the idea that the basis of my arguments is my own concept of what is valued as fun in the game. I never said that. Plenty of CFC members have expressed that they would like to enjoy more PvP, so it is from that perspective I look at the statistics, which paint somewhat of a grim picture, even if you take into account that they are proportionally less interested in PvP. And yes, you are being arrogant and do not appear to be at all interested in real debate.

          • Messiah Complex

            “You’re trying to force the idea that the basis of my arguments is my own concept of what is valued as fun in the game. I never said that.”

            You always default to some version of ‘the obvious reading of my words is obviously not what I intended to say’ whenever someone calls you on your bullshit.

        • Dermeisen

          It is hard to know what another guy’s game feels like, I guess there are horses for courses but…. my own experience of pvp tells me that smaller is usually better, up to a point fc-ing aside, secondly the joint project, participation towards a goal, making your mark is tied directly to how you experience your own significance and that is certainly tied to fun. You can have a meaningful experience in a huge alliance if largely a vicarious one, in reality you need risk to feel that hit of adrenalin you often get from pvp and achieving something in-game. My own guess it that the little bee can stave off boredom for a while because Eve is complex and requires facilitation. The relationship is two way giving the vet some purpose also, but there is nothing like being in a corp, usually from the beginning and carving your way into the history of an alliance. For the little bee that is not really an option, they are ‘a little bee’ in a large hive, the landscape of Eve would need to evolve for that little bee to become something more – but I believe this is coming.

          • Messiah Complex

            I think it’s coming, too, but I’m extremely sketchy on the time frame. While I think it would be good for them to bleed corps (and even alliances) who want to do their own thing, I do worry about the loss of institutional knowledge if the whole coalition becomes defunct. Nonetheless, the sea change would be really interesting to watch.

      • ltl-b

        You need to get a life. You’re so salty about goons having fun playing the game their way that you can’t even enjoy it yourself, it’s hilarious! Go play some other game like minecraft, that should help calm your autism.

        • Niden

          Wow, you really have no idea what you’re talking about do you sir?

          • ltl-b

            We do have fun, specifically watching people like you sperg out about how the goon monolith is ruining the game and they can’t possibly be having fun. We’re really just ruining your fun, and people like you.

          • Kamar Raimo

            Thanks for providing an example of the typical defensive-aggressive behaviour I referenced before.

          • Niden

            Yep, that’s exactly what’s going on. Dang, you figured it out.

    • Tyr Carter

      Welcome to Khanid 🙂

      • Messiah Complex


  • Talvorian Dex

    I was in the CFC for about 3 years, from back when it held one region until today. The CFC won Eve, full stop. But now, like many winners, it has no purpose anymore. Members have to make the choice between enjoying the game and being part of the winning team. And increasingly, the people who have a true PvP mentality are choosing to go elsewhere.

    Sure, people want to play with their friends, but they want to “play”. Increasingly, they’re playing other games. The bloc breaking up would be a wonderful thing for the game.

  • boss

    These are my favorite stories – the author is another unknowing member of the flock herded like so many self-righteous sheep by The Mittani. When The Mittani speaks the cute little furry all-knowing do-gooders rally to their keyboards like a fresh field of grass to sow the wisdom of their particular take on Eve Online. The flock decry the successes of The Imperium as some ponzi scheme ginned up by The Mittani himself to separate them from their hard earned money; all the while ironically writing articles and blogging on websites that generate real money from advertisements. Oh the horror.

    Since the State of the Goonion all those that “don’t care” about The Mittani and The Imperium have spent countless hours waxing poetic about the evils of it all. If The Imperium is falling apart, total shit, filled with nothing but carebears and automatons marching blindly in lock-step then why all the chatter. The fact is when The Mittani speaks people listen and react – pro and con – just like the author has in hopes of further raising his profile in Eve, promoting his blog, and ultimately hoping that you give him ISK as evidenced by his “Give Us Your Money” program over at the Onion. Got to love a hypocrite.

    • AFK

      It’s fun to talk shit but, yea, you’re right. This is all JUST TALK as usual and once the book thing blows over will be back to normal. Actually doing something against goons/CFC has been deemed “not fun enough” and “not worth it” by….whoever deems these things….and will never happen.

    • Niden

      Shitpost much? You sound angry, do you need a hug?

      • boss

        seriously that’s all you got? Some old used up “r u mad bro”. However since you asked I am endlessly entertained and exceedingly happy.

        • Niden

          What,did you expect a serious answer to that? It’s so beyond wrong I couldn’t even debate it. Have a nice day.

          • boss

            Ah the refuge of a weak mind

    • Niden

      Shitpost much? You sound angry, do you need a hug?

  • AkrasjelLanate

    “Any Imperium alliance could survive outside the coalition and enjoy a more fun and meaningful existence.”

    Not all for sure.
    Aren’t they in some part to dependent on the goons leaderships. and the brain drain that makes them lose the best members.

  • They are dependant on the moongoo for their SRP. No moongoo or SRP no more CFC (I can’t call it the other name anymore – its a rip off name from another universe ffs)

    Yes I was in there for a few months and I have previously wrote about the blue sea of the [CFC]. I didnt get my RMT. Niden I may have to resign.

  • Websites for Advertisements

    “He also points out a fair few times that this represents an existential threat to the Imperium’s existence.” how many times can you exist editor; 0 is not enough

    Goon culture is worse than Pandemic Legion culture, but they are both annoying and elitest. Oh well!

  • Bob

    That was the most unconvincing SOTG I’ve ever heard. When Mittens has a problem explaining who the enemy is you know it’s a pretty contrived. Sadly for the CFC there are no longer any yangs to their ying.

    On another note, whilst Mittens may be suggesting reddit is trying to sink his kickstarter it is worth nothing that the SOTG has 1600 on comms and only 600 have backed the KS – so even his own people don’t seem to care for the idea.

  • Karth

    I joined GSF during the H1Z1 thing. I got the game a few weeks prior to the event from a friend. We had a shit ton of fun before everyone kinda quit playing. She joined KF but “didn’t get” Eve and quit like I did 3 times before finally sticking with it.

    After getting into GSF I joined Reavers cause it seemed they were having a lot of fun down in querious and my first big fight was for the final timer for the ED- station. It was absolutely amazing. Reavers is a great group to fly with and Asher is by far my favorite FC.

    On a corp level we do the whole small gang thing and jump into w-space regularly. When I’m not in a fleet I can do pve in relative safety with the incurssion sig or rat in deklein or mess around with the market or build whatever my heart desires.

    People think that because of the size or amount of blues of the imperium you’re somehow starved of content. That’s only true if you sit around and wait for coalition fleets to sovwand a thing.

    I think people have a wrong idea of the people joining the imperium. There are A LOT of carebears and i bet the majority of people aren’t joining for elite pvp but for the complete package the imperium offers. You join the group that fits your playstyle. Aside from renters GSF has probably the biggest group of carebears in sov null.

    Everyone seems to see the Imperium as a huge military force full of people jumping on every chance to blob another group while the majority of people joining the imperium do so because of it’s stability and who don’t care too much about shooting other nerds.

    • Niden

      Of course there are exceptions, like Asher (who’s a great guy) and the Reavers. But those are far from the standard.

      • Karth

        That’s my point tho. Everyone makes the assumption that people join the imperium for elite pvp and are therefor content starved. Just like people who never leave high-sec can’t possibly be enjoying the game.
        It’s different playstyles and apparently what the imperium offers appeals to a large crowd.

        And from a pvp’ers perspective it would be the most amazing thing if the imperium fell apart. I’m sure there are a lot of people in the imperium that would think so. But there’s also a large group (ratters, incurssion runners, industrialists) who are quite happy with things as they are.

        As for mittens “milking” the playerbase. A lot of the people I talk to see through that. We’re really not as stupid as reddit makes us out to be. I didn’t buy H1Z1 for TMC and while we had a decent amount of dudes playing the game a lot of the “swag” you could get probably went to people who already had the game and just hopped on TMC to grab it. Most who weren’t even part of the imperium.Evidenced by the hostile groups we ran into wearing “our” shirts.
        If mittens really had the power to “milk” the imperium the kickstarter would’ve been done by now. But the fact that it’s been sitting around 30-35k for a while now should be evidence enough that even in the imperium nobody really cares that much.

        The one thing mittens is really good at is making people believe he’s a big deal. Take the viewer counts on twitch. Sure they get a lot for an Eve stream but enough so they get sponsors like Razor and free microphones? Somehow he managed to convince people at those companies that he was important and good for sales. I highly doubt he had that much of an impact.

      • cloaky sniper raven

        So look, I am just an Imperium line member guy, right. Not privy to the goings on of the leadership. But that being said, I have to say that Karth is right. It is about the whole package. I can log in whenever I want and do fun stuff without some leader screaming at me for not being there for some CTA on Wednesday morning at 9 while I was at work. The infrastructure is there to support the little guy. Me. It values us. The average line member.

        We have a ton of squads and special interest groups if you feel like hanging out with folks like you. And let me be clear, I never ever do PVE, ever, just fleets and roams and stuff like that. We in our alliance all like each other and have a blast. This idea that all of the Imperium sits around and nullbears away is silly. The FC’s are fun. the content is there and we like it. The fact that everyone else hates us makes it awesome for us because they all want to fight us.

        The fact that no other coalition (except maybe the HBC) ever cracked the code on keeping a ton of players happy and engaged is the real problem. It requires infrastructure and dedication. Diplos by the dozen, IT directors, HR folks, logistics wings, etc etc. and you can thank Vile Rat for all that. A real diplo understands diplomacy the way armchair gamers do not.

        If Nulli or BL ever got those parts right there would have been a ton of wars happening now. But most alliances rely on either a person or very small cadre of folks to keep things running and keep people motivated. Goons and the rest have a TON of people making things happen. If Mittins, or Sion disappeared tomorrow, there is still a huge infrastructure left to support everyone. And remember, he was not the first or even second or third leader of GSF. Just the one who discovered the recipe.

        • Niden

          Sure, of course, you have good points. However, the times have changed and the greater CFC has not changed with them. It is a massive giant in an age when the rest of the world operates in smaller units, on smaller battlefields. There is no natural enemy, they almost have to invented. I mean look at the current “war”. Is flattening Cloud Ring and killing the content for everyone there really worth it? The CFC is naturally dividing into smaller units in order to get content, just follow that idea to its natural conclusion.

          • cloaky sniper raven

            Here I think even Mittins would surprisingly agree with you. He was always advocating for fields and farms style game-play, He was anti-N +1 apex force, anti extreme force projection across the whole map (a tactic the guys in PL love to this day). Anti supercap superblob (still beloved by NC. and PL). Imperium has to use them, however, because that is what the meta and the mechanics predict. Tell me anytime other than BR5 that PL dropped supers without ROFLstompoing some group. They only play to win, right?. If the Meta changes so the winning conditions **do not** require large groups to win, and small groups can defeat larger ones by using better tactics, better strategy, better smarts, then the Imperium as a coalition will end.

            But to that, look what happens when CCP genuiinely tries to impliment stuff to end N+1 and Superblob. Fozzie Sov and all the latest changes are pushing for just that. Pushing for a new way to win and all CCP gets is an earful of crap from the vets. “This f#%&in’ Sux!” “Fire Fozzie” etc etc. I think you should go back and look at all this thing TheMittani argued for for years and I think you will see he agrees, smaller and more flexible tactics with a long list of counters to any comp or strategy is what we all want.

            Everyone gets caught up in the propaganda drama and forgets that it is just that. Propaganda Drama. It is like what Andrew Groen shared at EVE Vegas about SirMolle’s speech during the Great War, just rhetoric. And Cloud Ring is not being killed, it is being farmed for frickin content. We are trying new things.

            Niden, I read this site every day. The articles are the best on the Internet when it comes to EVE. Well thought out and well written. Go back and look, you will see my comments all over it. However, you need to actually talk to people in the Imperium before you make an editorial like this. This article is just wrong all over, unless all you want to is feed the “Grr Goons” faction, in which case mission accomplished.

    • Kamar Raimo

      There is nothing in that comment that I would disagree with, and certainly even Goons have a lot of diversity in their ranks, let alone the coalition as a whole.

      I think what pisses off lots of people is the self-obsessed and narcissistic smugness of some people in leadership coupled with the collectively defensive-aggressive behaviour of many line members. That doesn’t make this coalition and it’s core alliance very popular among the rest of the players.

      When I think of how often I have read from many Imperium members – Goons or otherwise – how everyone not belonging to their group are either, irrelevant scrubs, elite pvp cancer or any other denigrating term that describes any playstyle except theirs, I really don’t want to have much to do with those guys. They seem to think that many things I enjoy or aspire to in EVE are shit anyway.

      • Karth

        How are they different than PL? Or NC.? Or BL when they were still around?
        A lot of the attitude came from SA forums.
        I’m sure if i take 100 randoms posts from PL’s forum and show them to you you’d probably say they came from goon forums. Just skim through the public recruitment part to see what I mean.

        EVERY relevant group in Eve thinks they’re the shit and everyone else sucks. Or at least that’s how they seem if you read posts by their members. You just remember goons better because of the whole Grrr goons thing.
        I know this because before I actually played and talked to some of them I thought they were rude assholes as well. Sure we have a bunch of assholes in GSF but what alliance doesn’t?

        • Kamar Raimo

          I’m not taking sides with PL, NC. or BL either, but as pretentious, smug and elitist those guys can be, none of them ever went as far as commissioning a book about a war they won.

          There is an increased level of hubris that emanates from that organisation, and I know for a fact that many line members can not be blamed for that, but it is an image that is cultivated and projected to the outside consistently. No matter whether Goons or the Imperium as a collective actually are behaving in a certain way, many spokespeople for the organisation portray it like that in an all inclusive way.

          I mean, the last time I heard someone say “our people” in EVE was when I listened to some Ushra’Khan RPers.

        • Joe

          Pl recruitment threads are really bad no doubt. Cfc on the other hand constantly talk about there culture. But really it’s too big. They are really just like the rest. The main problems with the cfc are :

          1) they really are too big and safe. With the srp you might as well be on the test server.

          2). The mittani is so slimey and loud.

  • Kiryen

    It’s hilarious how many people think success means the coalition is terrible, and are telling line members we must not be having fun because ~reasons~. All this whining about “true PVP” and kills per month and whatnot.. yet.. we can still mass overwhelming numbers. Hmmm… Yeah maybe people aren’t that worried about having fun in the way the ~leet pvp~ scrublords are so worried about.

    As for “There are pilots just like you in
    nullsec, who actually contribute to something and make an impact on the
    map when they log in. They likely fight for a leader who commits his
    time to the game to make content for you and your comrades, rather than
    one who does so to make real money.” Yeah ok whatever. Contribute to what? To whatever succeeded BL, an alliance built around burnishing one man’s ego and sandcastle-kicking, and folded screaming that sandcastles are cancer because owning 1 region for 2 weeks was too hard? BRAVE? LOL, been there and did that, repeatedly getting their asses handed to them and turning down sweet deals from CFC/Imperium twice because “goons are bad, mmkay” before getting manhandled by PL and BL in turn. Provi? Ok, let’s fight to hold a shitty region because of roleplaying 10 years ago.

    The fact is that the Imperium succeeds because it’s led by a man with immense talent for motivating and organizing a bunch of drunk nerds playing internet spaceships, and who evidently has realpolitik running through his veins. Thge rest of you are Barack Obama telling the Russians to please stop supporting Assad and Mittens is Vladimir Putin doing whatever the fuck he wants and keeping players in because they like being part of an organization people hate primarily for succeeding despite doing everything wrong according to the bads it consistently defeats.

    The fact of the matter is that you people are ranting on the internet because Goons have simply had the fortune to get a leader that’s just much more talented at strategy than you are. Mittens would, IRL, probably do very well on the National Security Counsel, the CIA, or in the political party of his choice. Instead, he turned those talents on a bunch of nerds who think the Imperium should fall apart because its ratters get tackled a lot.

  • JZ909

    The Goons are annoying. I think some high-stakes drama and warfare would make the game more interesting, but I can hardly critisize them for being sucessful, and I can hardly expect any other organization to really be able to compete. They have a professional leader who depends on internet spaceships to make a living, while everyone else has amatuer leaders who can bail when times get rough.

  • Seraph IX Basarab

    Hate to say I told you so Tub…oh wait no I don’t. I love telling you I told you so 😉 Love being the mayor of I told you so town.

  • Viince_Snetterton

    Why do you continue to dance around the main reason that the failed lawyer keeps his organized crime group together: RMT

  • Drogo Drogos

    Good thing that the Imperium have a ton of sigs you can join and these sigs specialise in each part of what Eve has to offer.

    From Wormholes to Incursions to faction warfare to High Sec tear farming.

    Why would we be bored lol ?

  • Tyr Carter

    And now we have free kills in khanid thanks to the pH idiots. They just keep dying… Over and over. This is the first time i actualy appreciate anything the mittani fucker had done 🙂

  • Razordreamz

    A good read, interesting timing with the Endie leak all over reddit now too.

  • Stu Pendisdick

    mfw the idiots are finally starting to wake up and realize that a greasy, slimy ex-lawyer will always be a greasy, slimy ex-lawyer, out to screw anyone and everyone he can out of every dollar possible.

    I’m laughing my ass off. Too bad that CCP never understood this, and sold their souls to the bastard for 30 pieces of silver…