Lowlife: Denizens of Lowsec – The Farmer

 

If I asked you for a word to describe EVE Online, chances are you would say ‘sandbox’. If I asked you for an expression to describe low security space, it is reasonable to assume you would say ‘PvP’. The kind of lowsec inhabitant we’ll be dissecting in this final Denizens of Lowsec series article is a product of the first and anathema to the latter.

The Farmer

There is no shortage of opinions when it comes to the farmers of Faction Warfare lowsec. In fact it is a reliable way to start a threadnought on your favorite EVE Online forum. When doing research for this article I spoke to members from all sides of the lowsec community; Factional Warfare militia as well as pirates and outlaws. From the lowly grunt to the highest echelons of lowsec leadership, as well as a CSM 9 lowsec candidate. I wanted to see where people land on this subject. The responses I got were immediate, plentiful, lengthy and passionate. What this illustrates to me is that it is an issue people feel strongly about, and an inventory of the denizens of lowsec would not be complete without discussing it.

To understand what people are so worked up about you need to first understand the nature of the farmers and why they exist. So let’s take it from the top.

Money For Nothing

“When I was young I thought that money was the most important thing in life; now that I am old I know that it is.”

– Oscar Wilde

As I have explained before, plexes are the basis for system control in Faction Warfare. Officially they are called Factional Warfare Dungeons, but in reality this term is never used. The plexes are ‘run’ by entering them through a gate (all but the large ones that lack a gate) and staying within 30 km of the structure inside for a certain period of time. The time required depends on the size of the plex and if it has been run by an enemy in the other direction. Running the timer also requires that only friendly forces are within the 30 km radius. Successfully completing a plex moves the system towards ‘vulnerable’ or ‘ stable’, depending on who completes it, and grants the capturer LP from their faction.

The idea behind FW plexes was to make it profitable to engage in Factional Warfare and control territory. It did not take long after the system was launched until people started ‘farming’ them however. Turning the plexes into ATM’s rather than conflict drivers.

Tiers

Farmers Inc.

Farming was not just an individual endeavour. Along with elements in the militias themselves, corporations and alliances came in from the outside to make money in Faction Warfare lowsec. For instance, we saw alliances like Nulli Secunda come in to the Amarr / Minmatar war zone, push for the higher tiers, and check out when profits were maximized. So much so that it prompted CCP to remove the system whereby a higher tier would result in lower LP costs for items. The profits were reduced, but the culture of farming in Faction Warfare remained.

This type of syndicate loyalty point agriculture, if you will, had become a ‘thing’, and was done repeated times by other entities. More recently in the Gallente / Caldari war zone by Test Alliance Please Ignore who came in after their loss in the Fountain war. Although some were interested in fighting many more were intent on farming loyalty points and avoiding PvP as best they could (you can listen to my piece on this here, read by CSM 8 Ali Aras, courtesy of Declarations of War podcast). The war zone was flooded with frigates fitted to the gills with cloaking devices and warp core stabilizers, hiding and running at the first sight of danger – much to the ire of those living in lowsec for the fights.

Vox Populi

As it so often is with these things; the plebs will riot in the streets and with endless clamour voice their displeasure at the state of things, but when the dust settles and it has come time for solutions only a resolute few will raise their voice. And even then, many rushed ideas falter under the burden of common sense and contemplation of the delicate nature of freedom in EVE.

Sifting through the myriad of proposed concepts reveals some matured schools of thought however, ranging from the timid to the aggressive.

WCS

Tilling the Soil

The more extreme suggest that fitted warp core stabilizers and cloaks should disallow plex capture – forcing those that have no intention of fighting to be more on their guard, and reducing the appeal of farming. The argument is that WCS and cloaks are a crutches that encourage cowardice and inactivity.

The reserved will warn that this is the slippery slope of meddling with the sandbox. The infringement on personal freedom for the perceived greater good  is seen as a dangerous path to step down. The arguments are reminiscent of the classic freedom versus security debate we have become accustom to outside of EVE.

While both sides have merit, these are ideas that should not be taken lightly. One of the most cherished qualities in EVE online is freedom, and that freedom lives a fragile life. The other side of that coin is that probably the most valued trait of lowsec for many of those that call it home is PvP. This type of semi-afk farming is seen as the antithesis to that ideology, and it is considered by some that re-vamped mechanics should actively enforce change.

As always the answer probably lies in temperance and sober contemplation of ramifications. A recurring proposal that falls under this category is the timer rollback idea. It would mean that when a plex is left, or when a cloak is activated, the timer would automatically start going backwards, eventually reverting to its neutral state.

The core values of this concept are that earning by running FW plexes should still be viable, but that the focus would be moved slightly in favor of fighting to defend this source of income, rather than employ tactics and fittings to skirt around doing so.

Yet another philosophy, that cannot be ignored, became apparent; there are those that believe the status quo should be maintained. The main argument from this camp are that any changes of the sort mentioned above would be an infringement on the personal carte blanche so valued in the EVE community. Another associated point worth noting is that some believe that plex farming is a lifeline for new pilots in lowsec that would otherwise find it very hard to make ISK.

Red Harvest

At the root of this whole discussion is the feeling from many lowsec inhabitants that their home is treated as a bank rather than a source of content. While it is easy to blame the farmers themselves, the truth lies in the path of least resistance. It is a matter of what behaviour mechanics encourage. PvP or ISK farming.

In an ideal world it would be not PvP vs ISK, but PvP = ISK. Accomplishing that is an extremely difficult task, and it can be safely said that no-one yet possesses a viable answer to the riddle. But it can be argued that the community is mature enough to be considering well educated steps in that direction.

Tags: farmer, lowlife, lowsec, niden, piracy, pirate

About the author

Niden

12 year EVE veteran, Snuffed Out scumbag, writer, graphic artist, producer, Editor-in-Chief of Crossing Zebras and the second most influential player in EVE, according to EVE Onion.


  • Sun Kashada

    The timer rollback sounds interesting, however, this is already happening: when you drive someone out of their plex, you start running the timer for your faction.

    The core problem ,when hunting plexers to save your home system, is, that a main character wastes time by running a 39 min timer for a 20 min plex, while having a very low chance of engaging in a fight and being rewarded with almost no LP for finishing said plex with increased expense of time. The plexer, however, is most likely to be an alt (maybe one of many alts) and therefore doesn’t care as much about the additionally spent time.
    i.e. money > system occupancy

    It would make sense to employ a passive timer rollback that would be added to the effect of the opposing faction running the beacon. So if the pilot leaves his plex, the timer will run backwards on its own (as if the plex was occupied by the opposing faction). If there is someone of the opposing militia sitting in the plex at that time, the timer will roll back at double speed till it reaches the neutral state.

    This would make hunting or driving off plexers more efficient, effectively decreasing their impact on key systems, while it would still be possible for the newest of players to cover their losses by plexing in back-end systems.

    But tbh i just want warp core stabs and cloaks to be unfunctional in faction warfare plexes^^

    • Susan Black

      Rolling back the timer is a popular idea, but it also has it’s problems and balance issue that many people simply ignore.

      For example, it’s affect on legitimate pvp engagements, and situations where people are neck and neck fighting over a system.

      If you struggle to hold a plex for 15+ minutes, is it balanced that another group can simply call in overpowering numbers and undo all the work you did in the matter of seconds? Shouldn’t they have to ‘undo’ the work that you did for that 15 minutes?

      There has to be ways to nerf farming without also hurting legitimate gameplay, or all we’ll have left in the end is another set of stale mechanics.

      • Ciaphas Cyne

        i dont see how this hurts legitimate pvp engagements at all. either hold your ground or dont. there should be consequences for losing engagements and having to run. plus you ran that timer alone for 15 min. if 10 people sit there and run it back shouldnt it go down 10 times as fast? if we are gonna treat plexing like work than it should become faster and easier with more pilots, just like mining.

        aside from that, those pilots did do work to undue your 15 min of farming. they undocked in pvp ships. more work than you did running that plex stabbed with no risk.

        • Sun Kashada

          I don’t agree on speeding up timers according to numbers inside (as you described it)
          Plexers would just come in fleets and clear systems in minutes….no one could plex or fight solo any more

          • Ciaphas Cyne

            i didnt suggest that at all. i was pointing out that plexing is not like traditional “work” in eve. one player plexes at the same rate as 20. that is not true of mining, salvaging, ratting, or hauling. i dont want to change that. im just mentioning it.

          • MaraRinn

            The purpose of the timer is to provide an opportunity for PvP to happen. If you fly around with a large fleet to stomp the timers, there is less opportunity for PvP. There needs to be time for scouts to find you, and fleets to arrive and engage you.

          • Ciaphas Cyne

            again….if you read what i said….im not advocating shorter timers…..ffs….

      • Sun Kashada

        either side would suffer or gain from that
        it *might* give an additional advantage to the defending force which is able to reship faster, but i’m not too sure about that

        as for the overpowering numbers…they’ll always win, timer rollback or not (hence ‘overpowering’)

      • MaraRinn

        There’s no need for an accelerated rollback timer to scale with the number of defenders. It could simply be a matter of defender presence causing the rollback to occur at double speed over the “natural” rollback timer.

        The importance of the “natural” rollback timer is to ensure that the cloaky stabbed guy can’t simply round-robin the plexes and lead the defender(s) on a merry goose chase.

  • Susan Black

    The problem with removing the ability to use WCS and cloaks is that this will not fix farming –it may not even dent it. This is the exact same thing people said about guns. A year or two ago, all the ‘rage’ was over the fact these farmers didn’t even fit guns on their ship. They were called the ‘gunless’ farmers instead of the ‘stabbed’ farmers.

    So, CCP forced people to shoot the NPC inside the offensive plexes. But, as you can see this did nothing to squelch plex farming.

    Neither will forcing people to fit/not fit other modules and etc.

    • Darren Lemric

      At least without those modules people would be forced to at least dscan to avoid conflict. We all do this to differing degrees, whether when the other side of the gate has numeric, or tactical advantage.

  • Tylo

    Cloaks already can’t work in the high-sec space of your opposing militia. Why not the gated plexes too? I guess this would intrude on people waiting to “trap” someone in a plex by being cloaked themselves and waiting for someone to come in. Perhaps if that were somehow seen as less than a waste of time, people would do it more.

  • Ciaphas Cyne

    my solution to this, it is three fold:

    (working under the assumption that, farmers are not BAD people, they just have a bad habit, cloaking is not something that should be restricted, and that PvP is the main function and purpose of the fac war system.)

    1- instant roll backs on counters. you leave the plex or cloak, you lose all the time on the counter. it cant be a slow roll back as that will change very little of farmers behavior. we want farmers to farm in systems that aren’t defended and are left vacant for long periods of time. that SHOULD happen. defended systems with active pilots should see alot less farming. if you wanna plex an enemy system, you better bring guns and friends.

    2- stabs already have a counter. its fitting two scrams. what we dont have a counter for are ships fit with three stabs, cloaks, and ecm. yes, thats right, the farmer standard is now cloaky, stabbed, griffons. I propose a new deploy-able, a low-sec approved bubble of sorts. it does NOT prevent warping, but rather turns off warp stabs and cloaks within its 30km radius. give it a nice long lifespan as well, maybe 12-24 hours. no reinforcement timer, one time use item. anyone can pop them.

    3- make LP payouts from killing enemies relative to the amount of ISK the ship was worth and increase the LP payout from enemies that are killed inside plexes. simultaneously, lower the LP payout on all plexes at all tiers. this will reward combatants for their efforts and encourage pvp inside faction complexes. by attaching LP payout to the worth of the kill mail Id like to see higher LP payouts across the board for downing enemy pilots. balance is the key here, you cant have people farming alt kills for LP so the LP payout has to be lower than the entire cost of the ship/loot dropped.

    • Sun Kashada

      1 – Defending home systems against pvpers might become too easy for people who don’t really want a fight. They would just bring something overpowered to push you out and reset the timer – as opposed to bringing something with a chance of loosing to get you engaged and kill you. Plex-PvP is a opt-in/opt-out thingy. With instant timer rollback harrassment tactics would get a ridiculous boost imo

      2 – Even though i myself hope for cloaks and stabs being unuseable in plexes i don’t really think stuff like that will happen. My suspicion is that CCP is looking for a solution that makes sense in the rest of the world (or the rest of deadspace)- nothing artificially restricted to fw plexes.

      And yes, you would have to restrict those bubbles to plexes or break blockade runners and stabbed haulers entirely. Lowsec logistics would be impossible or at least very expensive for many of us.

      3 – Yes yes yes 🙂 Earning 100-300 LP for killing a T2 fit T1 frigate is just silly. This also goes well with CCPs usual risk vs reward philosophy which is not yet applied to faction warfare: Cloaky plexing=high reward, 0 risk; Pvp =high risk, almost no reward.

      4 – i don’t think this can be solved by boosting the rats. Plexers will just upship to cloaky, stabbed dessies, while the rats do affect legit PvP. Boost them too much and you will make certain ships/fits impossible to fight with (at least in bigger plexes), i.e. reducing your choice of ship for a roam.

      • MaraRinn

        1. Bringing “overpowering” fleets is what is done already: there are already regular fleets of 20 frigates with logistics support.

        2. If cloaks and stabs become unusable, you’ll just have people altering their strategy for plex running: drop a bookmark en route, warp to bookmark and cloak there until invaders disappear from D-scan.

        3. Boosting the rewards for PvP kills will lead to gaming the LP reward system in other ways.

        • Ciaphas Cyne

          1- 20 frigates is not “overpowering fleets” its just a good time. there are millions of solo and small gang fleets as well.

          2- considering 90% of farmers dont use d-scan youll find that limiting stabs would help alot. farmers would actually have to stay semi-at the key board and spam that d-scan button. right now farmers experience NO RISK. no risk, for massive reward is very very un-EVE.

          3- no, not it wont. limit LP payouts based on market conversions. keep the LP drops lower than the value of the ship destroyed. easily done.

          do you not think before you type? i see your trash all over eve – 0 too. when do you ever get the chance to log in? or maybe you dont. yea that must be it…..you cant actually play eve, you wouldnt say what your saying if you actually logged on and tried fac war.

          • MaraRinn

            1. 20 frigates with logistics support is most certainly overpowering when you are one of the solo and small gang fleets. Do you think before you type?

            2. The farmers warp out already, which indicates that they are not AFK. They may not react to D-scan by warping out as soon as anyone appears in half a million kilometres, because leaving the plex will slow down their LP acquisition rate. Removing WCS from plexes will mean they reduce their D-scan and start warping out when people land on the gate. You’ll still have a hard time catching them. Then you’ll be screaming for D-scan to automatically be disabled in plexes.

            3. The LP farmers will keep looking for new ways to maximise their ISK/hr. That is why we call them farmers: their aim is to acquire the most ISK for the least effort. If you can’t understand the problem, why are you trying to solve it?

          • Ciaphas Cyne

            1- 2 ships is overpowering if you are in one ship solo. do YOU think before you type? my crew takes 5v10s and 10v20s all the time.

            2- this is laughable. and you are putting words in my mouth. dscan works fine. im not complaining about frigs with single stabs. its frigs with 3-4 stabs that cant be caught even when special fitting. its 0 risk for all that reward.

            3- the problem is that you see an isk faucet and dont want it shut off. saying “farmers will be farmers” is total bullshit. you havent addressed the central point that farming in facwar, at current, presents ZERO RISK. address that and then we can keep talking. otherwise you can have fun talking to yourself.

          • MaraRinn

            If you have ants in your kitchen, and you leave sugar on the bench, the ants will find the sugar. If you move the sugar somewhere else the ants will find the sugar again.

            I’m not saying that you should leave sugar out, what I’m saying is that wherever you move the sugar, the ants will find it. The solution to “ants in my sugar” is not to move the sugar somewhere else, the solution is to remove the sugar. You could try poisoning the ants, but that just results in poisoned ants in the sugar, and then you’ll get some other group of ants invading your house. Remove the reason for the ants to be there, and you won’t have ants.

            So too, whatever CCP does to patch one easily exploitable LP source, the farmers will find the next easily exploitable LP source. If you constrain your thinking to adding restrictions to the current design of FW plexes, the LP farmers will still be around farming whatever happens to be the most profitable LP source. They will adapt to your minor changes the same as the ants adapting to moving the sugar.

            That you are unable to comprehend this is simply a measure of your unsuitability to suggest changes to game mechanics. You don’t understand the problem, so you are never going to devise a solution that actually solves the problem.

          • Ciaphas Cyne

            ants and sugar are fine and dandy but there is a reason you keep resorting to metaphor and fantasy land stories. youve got nothing concrete to say. your comparison of ants and sugar doesnt apply here. Farmers are not something i ever said need to leave facwar entirely…in fact i quote myself: “we want farmers to farm in systems that aren’t defended and are left vacant for long periods of time. that SHOULD happen.” what we want, as facwar pvpers, is a system that awards the right LP for the risk being taken. atm, farmers have no risk (again something you havent addressed…..) and therefore deserve much less of a reward.

            why cant we deal with farmers in an effective manner? because they outnumber the real pilots 2:1 on a good day and can spend 2mil isk on an untouchable ship and farm all day. we cant “chase them away” effectively at all. if you were in fac war….ever….you would know this basic shit.

            roll back timers are a real, concrete solution that would, undeniably change the behavior of farmers. if you wanna cap a plex, two conditions must exist:

            1- the system is quiet and you will remain unhindered

            2- you bring a pvp ship and prepare to defend the MILITARY site you are at.

          • MaraRinn

            I disagree with you on that basic point: farmers shouldn’t be happening. If a system is left undefended it should still take some kind of effort to capture plexes, other than simply arriving at a point in space and staying there for fifteen minutes.

            Instant rollbacks which you have advocated for will break the system far more than it is now: if you just have to scare the bad guys out of your plex and sit there for a few seconds to negate up to 15 minutes of occupation, what will be the result?

            You’re going to have people avoiding plexes unless they have the numbers to guarantee that you won’t attack.

            I am in Faction Warfare. I do chase plex runners away. I sit in plexes with my combat ship, bored out of my brain until the other guys come through with their massive frigate fleets. Then when they arrive with 20 frigates and see me running away, they claim I’m a “farmer”. Because apparently only farmers run away from a certain loss.

            If you’d paid attention to anything that has happened to FW previously, you’d know that previous iterations of the LP rewards were very broken, were exploited by a few people, and CCP adjusted those mechanisms.

            The problem of plex runners isn’t going to be solved by simply preventing them using WCS or cloak. They’ll just adapt and find new fittings that require the least amount of change from their current process.

            Changing the plex capture to require destruction of a structure just turns plex capture from a small scale PvP fight to a structure bashing fight.

            If we require simultaneous capture of plexes with timers triggered by actual PvP, you change the nature of the game. Similarly if all plexes are the one type instead of being “offensive” or “defensive”, it becomes a greater incentive to actual PvP pilots in FW to engage in plex fights.

            The PvE multi-stabbed plex runners aren’t going to engage in PvP except to the minimum level possible.

    • MaraRinn

      1. Defended systems will already see less farming, since it only takes one armed defender to keep away all the stabbed farmers. There is absolutely no need for an instant rollback. There is already a rollback mechanism where the defender simply has to occupy the plex for the duration.

      2. There is no need for new deployables or mechanics. If you want to defend the plexes from farmers, just warp to them. The farmers will flee.

      The people complaining most about the “abuse” of WCS are those looking for PVP. If you roam looking for PvP you will eventually find a target that is willing to fight back. The stabbed plex farmers aren’t potential targets: they never were, they never will be, regardless what mechanics you try to use to trip them up. They are no different to NPC rats: inconsequential occupants of space.

      Getting worked up about stabbed plex farmers in FW makes as much sense as complaining about being wardecced in hi sec.

      • Sun Kashada

        saying ‘cloaked plexers are a part of fw and to be embraced’ makes as much sense as praising the mind-numbing sovgrind in null

        • MaraRinn

          You’re putting words in my mouth. Maybe you could try addressing my argument rather than inventing straw men?

          What I did say is that cloaked plexers are a non-issue. If you simply warp to a site, they will run away. The plexers have to sit in space for 15 minutes to get their reward. If you as a FW participant patrol the plexes you are effectively denying the cloaked stabby plexers their income.

          By being present in space yourself, you will attract PvP. Flying frigates into novice plexes means you will attract frigate-sized fleets.

          • Ciaphas Cyne

            you obviously have no experience with pvp at all.

          • MaraRinn

            No experience? What, because sitting in a FW plex with a fleet of 5 frigates isn’t going to attract attention?

            Maybe you need to go play FW a bit more and learn how PvP works.

      • Ciaphas Cyne

        you are a silly farmer and need to go away. fac war is not your isk faucet. its my content engine and YOU are fucking it up for us pvpers. if YOU wanna pve you should try a different area of space.

        • MaraRinn

          You have no idea how I play. I’m just pointing out the bleeding obvious: any mechanism you introduce to try and stop plex farming will just lead to different mechanics being exploited for the purpose of farming. As such, it is imperative that the FW plex capture mechanics be adjusted so that PvP is required.

          • Ciaphas Cyne

            ok then, mara, let us know. how do you make PVP required for FW plexing? without roll back timers, without limiting warp core stabs, without wasting a mains time chasing an alt? be constructive. the answer to stopping farmers isnt “spend all night chasing them”. The only person who could suggest that is a farmer. like you. and im sick of my space being your isk pool.

            id know more about how you play if you didnt post with a forum alt btw.

          • MaraRinn
  • Howard Treesong

    We don’t need extravagant solutions, we just need good game mechanics.

  • Raze

    One of the things my corp discussed in our ‘tears about FW’ thread was decreasing the number of naturally spawning plexes substantially replacing them with plexes spawned and paid by players. Pay 1000 LP for a plex that is worth 1500, we didn’t discuss ratios and plex types, but just assumed that they would function and pay out the same amount as they currently do.
    This way, stealing someone elses plex would pay out better than spawning and completing it yourself. Hopefully instigating a little more conflict on a personal level.

    Ohh, and somehow allow pirates to affect the faction warfare zone and plexes would be greatly appreciated by yours truly. If only in a way where neither faction would benefit.

  • Niden

    Natural timer rollback is a good start. Resorting to drastic measures at once would have unforseen negative effects. Yes we need change, but we bust be delicate in our approach. Faction Warfare lowsec is the best PvP experience EVE has to offer, let’s not spoil it by doing something rash.

  • MaraRinn

    Perhaps worrying about cloaks and stabs is the wrong argument?

    8th rule of Fight Club: If this is your first night at Fight Club, you HAVE to fight.

    In the game “Shattered Galaxy” there was a similar capture system in place to FW plexes. Fights were fought over any one of a number of maps that formed the “world”. In each map were capture points, which the attacker would have to occupy with one or more units for a number of minutes.

    If an attacking force entered any particular map, it would show up as “in conflict” on the world map, and defenders would stream in to defend it. Capture was not possible until at least one defender was present on the map, and the fight would end after a fixed amount of time. Thus an attacker couldn’t simply win a war of attrition, they had to capture the capture points before the battle timer ended.

    I wonder if a similar mechanism could be in place for plexes: in order to capture, you have to fight. Thus rather than having a lame NPC guarding the site, a defender would have to be defeated inside a plex, at which point the other plexes of the same size in that system would become vulnerable to capture and the vulnerability timer would start counting down. The defenders thus have (for example) 15 minutes in which to drive the attackers off from the time the first defender ship is destroyed. Vulnerable systems would be announced through militia chat and through the FW map, e.g. “System: Novice plexes in Odamia are now vulnerable for 15 minutes”.

    With a 15 minute vulnerability timer, it would be reasonable for each plex to have a much shorter timer, such as 8 minutes. The plex vulnerability timer would have to be shorter than the sum of the N (see below) required plex capture timers, ensuring that multiple attackers are required to perform a capture. The timer would only count down when the attacker has exclusive presence in the plex. The timer would only count back up when the defender has exclusive presence in the plex.

    This system could be easily gamed by having an alt on the enemy side and deliberately losing a fight to yourself in order to trigger the vulnerability timer, and capturing the plexes with multiple attacker ships in parallel. One counter is only requiring the defenders to defend N out of the M timers (e.g.: N = min(ceiling(0.75M), M-1). Looking at this from the attackers perspective, the attackers have to defeat more than N of the M timers. In a system with 3 novice plexes, the attacker would have to defeat 2 of the novice plexes on a 8 minute timer within a 15 minute window. If the defenders can keep enough site timers rolling back, they can finish defending before the vulnerability timer is up simply because the attacker will not be able to roll the site timers down before the vulnerability timer has finished.

    This system ensures that fights will be found. If you don’t actively seek to drive attackers out of your plexes, their spies will volunteer to fight them and they’ll capture the sites by default. Cloaked stabbed plex runners won’t have any place in this environment, since they can’t simply run away and return to capture the site when the defender leaves: they have to be in the site capturing it before the vulnerability timer runs down.

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  • Justin Thomas

    The problem with forcing people to fight over plexes is that plexing would quickly become a net loss of income. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been farming in my Condor only to have a Slicer or a Dramiel warp in on me, or a small gang. Of course I could plex in a group, but then it’s no longer worth the time – HiSec missions become more profitable.

    • Niden

      A fair point Justin. The eternal question for FW has always been how to make PvP itself more profitable so that farming is not necessary. However, any solutions presented to-date are prone to exploitation, and even the wisest among us cannot reach a consensus on how it should be solved. It is the Holy Grail of FW.