F*ck Ishtars Vol. VII


In his F*ck Ishtars series, Pandemic Legion FC and ATXII commentator Apothne explores alternatives to run-of-the mill standard doctrines. More creativity, less Ishtars Online.

This week, I’ve been thinking about subcap fleets to have on hand when caps start a dropping like a black-haired captain pointing to a clock, where all the hours are replaced by the same number, and it’s very humourous.

HIC is the new HAC

HICs cost around a third more for the hull than a HAC, about 200-250 mil a pop rather than 150-200 mil. HICs do not get the beautiful MWD sig bloom bonus. HICs take a crapton more SP to sit in than HACs.

If we stop there, my first statement seems even more ludicrous (and it may well be so), but if we’re using afterburners, the sig bloom is reduced and wait…what? 20% resist bonus per level you say? Capital harpooning tackle on every ship you say? Yes, please.

The Deimos has never really enjoyed the limelight like any of the other HACs as a mainline fleet doctrine (unless we go all the way back to TWEEDfleet). Let’s have a look at the hull bonuses:

Gallente Cruiser bonuses (per skill level):

5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage.

7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer amount.

Heavy Assault Cruiser Bonuses (per skill level):

10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff.

5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage.

Role Bonus:

50% reduction in Microwarpdrive signature radius penalty.

So as a traditional AHAC, that’s a whole bunch of damage with only minor assistance to projection and a “wasted” armour repair bonus. Couple that with PG issues and the Deimos is decidedly limp in the Gallente line-up. Now for the Phobos:

Gallente Cruiser bonuses (per skill level):

5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret rate of fire.

10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret tracking speed.

Heavy Interdiction Cruiser bonuses (per skill level):

10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range.

5% bonus to Warp Disruption Field Generator scramble range.

Role bonus:

Can fit Warp Disruption Field Generator.

20% bonus to all armour resistances.

A cosy DPS bonus backed up by two great application bonuses. Let’s take a look at a fit:


It has the same DPS as an Eagle out to roughly the same range, 90k EHP only with a tiny sig and much improved tracking. What’s more, you can totally fiddle with the mids, the sensor booster isn’t really necessary, neither is the second TC. You could use those two mids for something like un-bonused damps or tracking disruptors. Once again, you have a 36k range and capital stopping scram on each ship. The EHP may seem a touch low, but it has the Gallente ace up its sleeve of actually having 140k EHP vs hybrid damage (which is not an unpopular choice these days), thanks to the native resist profile. In terms of the tank, it would be nice to have an extra tanking mod for a little more buffer, as only one mag stab leaves the DPS a little anemic.

This setup fully fit will cost you 350 mil per ship in Jita at the time of writing, whereas an equivalently fit and T2 rigged HAC is going to easily be 250-300 mil. If you’re willing to fork out an extra 60m for an A-type resistance plating, you’ll get an extra 10k EHP to push you over the 100k mark. You can use the high with the point for as many backup cynos as pleases you when escalations are afoot.

Combine this with some well fit Oneiros, the light of my capsuleer life that is the Lachesis I linked in FI3, and you have a rocking little fleet. A beam Zealot actually gets similar stats, but you lose out on having an extra mid to play with, and of course that lovely “infinite” point.


For smaller alliances that couldn’t put a Tempest “HeroCat” fleet together or apply a blob of dreads/supers, the way to kill capitals was the “Welpcane”. Pre-nerf, the Hurricane could put out a significant amount of DPS, have a reasonable shield tank and still run its neuts; capacitor warfare being the best way to make up for a lack of overwhelming DPS (and good to use even when you have that). Still, the Hurricane nerf passed and younger alliances lost their way to stick it to the capital-flaunting man. Now we’re post-Phoebe, capitals take a lot more mids to travel anywhere, leaving many more places where they might be caught. Not only that, alliances are feeling more comfortable using them given they know PL can’t be anywhere in the universe in under 7 minutes when motivated to kill your shiny space vessels.

Thankfully, however, the Minmatar Republic has a second BC hull that is also well suited to the job. Introducing the Welpclone:


Costing you 60m fully fit, this is not much more than some of the more expensive T1 cruiser fits these days. Starting at the top, we have the fully selectable damage of HAMs to poke into your opponent’s resistance hole, and then two medium neuts. These neuts are powered by the cap booster which, thanks to the Cyclone’s generous cargo bay as an ASB solo boat, will run for quite a while. Mids & rigs are otherwise simple: MWD for quick positioning and bumping capability, and rigs for maximising the tank. Lows are equally straightforward: the PDU allows the fitting of the double LSE and has the extra bonus of giving you a little more cap and shield EHP, you have three BCUs for maximum blappage, and your standard damage control.

If you want to add some extra DPS on top of your cap killing capability, a blaster Naga fits rather nicely into this comp.


Awful tracking, it’s just a big-ass cannon for applying as much DPS to large things as possible while still having a hope of catching reps (i.e why i threw the more conventional Talos out for this specific instance).

This Cyclone fleet ticks so many boxes that I’d go as far as to say it’s not a bad general purpose fleet (sans Naga) for taking anything on, let alone just capitals. Two medium neuts on every ship is exceptionally powerful, with the potential support of RLM Bellicose for target painters and anti-tackle you can be applying that DPS really well. What’s more, the drone bay can be switched to ECM drones to further mess with your opponent or your preferred drone setup. This is undoubtedly a wonderful little fleets comp for those looking to punch above their usual weight.

As always, if you have any ship or fleet ideas you think would be great for this series, feel free to send them to me on Twitter @CallMeApoth.

Tags: apothne, EFT, F*ck Ishtars, fitting, fleet, fuckishtars

About the author


Apothne is a proud member of Sniggerdly and an experienced roaming FC. He is a Guest FC and Lecturer for EVE University and anyone who invites him to ramble on their comms for a few hours. He is currently one of the most active and experienced player commentators for EVE Tournaments, including hosting and casting AT XII-XV and all #EVE_NT leagues, as well as the Amarr Championships on stage at Fanfest 2016.