F*ck Ishtars Vol. V



Back when I first moved to lowsec—the barren wastelands of Aridia specifically—at the end of 2012, the roaming fleet comp of the time was the battlecruiser (BC). This was just before the Odyssey expansion and the rise of the T1 cruiser and its cheap logi. However, this is my article: even though you get more bang for your buck roaming in T1 cruisers, and they’re a heck of a lot more maneuverable, I can roam in BCs if I want to! Even the ones from yesteryear’s notoriety post-nerfbat.

The tl;dr of BCs vs cruisers is that with the BCs you get to double the tank with an extra 25 to 50 percent DPS and a lot more utility, but you take a huge drop in mobility, each hull costs you an extra 30m and requires additional modules, you also lose all hope of sig tanking anything. Speaking of lowsec, battlecruisers are verboten in medium plexes, a place where many fights will take place. (And frightened opponents can hide from you.)


No, really.

Selectable damage types, okay projection for a brawling comp, plenty of tackle and DPS with a utility mid for EWAR. Using something like my smallgorors as a tether, you can happily motor around grid, blapping your standard AB cruisers with few issues.


Yes, I know that I’m using 220s rather than 425s, but the 425s have a small gain in DPS with a whole host of fitting issues, and the 220s track a little better which is always nice.

Tank vs Gank:

There are two nice ways to tank your Hurricane, either as in the above example with double energized adaptive nano membranes (EANM) and double gyro, or if you want to be a little beefier, you can go for three active hardeners and one gyro. Here are the stats, unheated:


And overheated:


Medium neut vs No medium neut:

Swapping out a trimark for an ancillary current router, you can happily fit a medium neut; whereupon I’d recommend using that spare mid for a small cap booster over anything else. Swapping a little tank and the utility mid for a medium neut on every ship is a pretty reasonable trade, if these decisions are going to be based on how much tank you need, or rather can sacrifice for the extra utility. Generally speaking, the lower numbers in fleet, the less tank you need to catch reps.



If you’ve read FI III you won’t surprised to find that my favourite cheap armour support ship is the Celestis.


Anchor with your logi, smartbomb off errant drones, and you have four lovely bonused damps, useful in so many situations.


I’m serious, I promise. No, really. Look, just bear with me okay?

Downsides are to be expected here; you’re not very fast and pretty much locked into kinetic damage (which is great against what exactly? I’ve never hear an FC yell “QUICK! SWITCH TO KINETIC DAMAGE!”), but on the upside you have a beastly tank and some great DPS. You can swap a ballistic control system for a nano to drop 60 DPS for an extra 100 m/s (more with links & overheat), but I’m not entirely sure it’s worth it. Similar to the Hurricane, you end up choosing between tank and utility. In this case you can choose a four-slot tank for one utility mid, or a three-slot tank for two, be they tackle or more conventional EWAR.

Four-slot tank:



Three-slot tank:



Just like the Hurricane, with a sacrifice to tank and some DPS you can fit a medium neut—a trade not to be immediately dismissed. Capacitor warfare is a powerful tool. The addition of the cap booster to this fit also safeguards your Drakes from having their hardeners neuted off.


For logi I’d advise either your standard AB shield T1 logi or the MWD Osprey I mentioned at the end of FI III.


Naturally you’re going to want target painters, and HAMs apply damage pretty terribly to frigates so a RLM Bellicose anchored with the logis will work wonderfully.


Naturally, swap the MWD to an AB as necessary.

As always, if you have any ship or fleet ideas you think would be great for this series, feel free to send them to me on Twitter @CallMeApoth.


Tags: apothne, EFT, F*ck Ishtars, fitting, fuckishtars

About the author


Apothne is a proud member of Sniggerdly and an experienced roaming FC. He is a Guest FC and Lecturer for EVE University and anyone who invites him to ramble on their comms for a few hours. He is currently one of the most active and experienced player commentators for EVE Tournaments, including hosting and casting AT XII-XV and all #EVE_NT leagues, as well as the Amarr Championships on stage at Fanfest 2016.

  • l0rd carlos

    Get 4/1 Osprey for more reps. 20 mil of highslot bling and offgrid booster you get 385 HP/s. Where your 3/2 Meta 4 osprey only has 249 HP/s

    Edit: Btw, Do you think there are many AB Cruiser gangs?

    • Irgendwear

      Damn carlos, you are literally everywhere !

      • l0rd carlos

        This was linked on ~le reddit so I took a look.

    • Apothne

      They are a common archetype in lowsec, though of course by no emans exclusive. Maller/NAug/Rail Moa/Rail Thorax/HML Caracal are all in common use.

  • discuss

    so you are telling us to fly hurricanes or drakes in lowsec?

    why do you call the article/post “fuck ishtars”, if you dont talk about them?

    yes – people are aware that there are many viable doctrines out there but just posting random fits that you think would work seems kind of pointless…

    about that fleet concept: you would just run MWD scramweb canes and expect to catch people to apply your 500 ish dps @ 5km?
    I think you will have a hard time catching anyone that has at least a brain and a FC that is not on his first fleet.

    same goes for drakes – application is OKish with HAMs + shitty paints but its not gonna move worlds and again – below 20km range seems really meh

    how are thoose ships superior to any other random BC comp?

    • Apothne

      The “peopel are aware” bit it what im talking about. Here are 2 example of fun roaming fleets. They’re not meant to be superior or inferior to another roaming comp, just an option for a fun roam in lowsec.


    This fuck Ishtars series seems really dumb. These doctrines don’t fuck Ishtars. These BCs would die terribly against Ishtars. Is this series just random roaming concepts of various quality? It would be one thing if you actually had things that countered Ishtars. It would be another thing if you specified niches that Ishtars don’t fill very well. Instead we get this, “However, this is my article: even though you get more bang for your buck roaming in T1 cruisers, and they’re a heck of a lot more maneuverable, I can roam in BCs if I want to!”

    ‘I can fly subpar ships if I want to.’ Sure, but how does that make an informative article?

    • Howtoflyishtar

      We know what counters ishtars m88.

      Napocs Tengus Bombs Tachpocs come to mind

      • Apothne

        Damps also work exceptionally well.

    • l0rd carlos

      You gotta have some doctrines that look engageable. Unless you force your enemies 24/7 with timers and baits.

      • Apothne

        You. I like you. Why do so few people get this?

    • Niden

      If you’d read the previous posts in this series, you would know that it was never intended to present counters to Ishtars, but rather inspire creativity, instead of people playing Ishtars Online. But yeah, I get that it’s a lot easier to skim through them a bit and just make loud noises.

    • Apothne

      What Niden said

  • Messiah Complex

    I think you just demonstrated that Drakes suck. Very thorough.

    • Apothne

      For brawling & roaming in lowsec I think I just showed they’re a fun option 🙂

      • Owen Wells

        They are, I’ve been running a few what I call 5 mid fleets, fleets of shield tanked 5 mid slot or more ships, naturally drakes feature fairly heavily. I find the best way to run these is just to give zero fucks about living and do whatever seems the funniest at the time, flown the fleet three times so far and not had anyone complain yet.

        Fit wise I’ve actually found that I prefer HMLS on my drakes, the cut in dps isnt that significant given you gain 30-50km of range (base range is about 50km with furies and 70km+ with faction missiles) and better damage application. You also gain a slight boost in tank because the reduced fitting requirements compared to HAMS lets you use T2 extenders.

        I pair them up with 200mm rail feroxs for the main dps boats (origionally ran 2 drakes for every ferox but I’m experimenting with a 1.1 ratio for the next fleet) and add RLML caracals for antifrig work, blaster moas for heavy tackle and a bellicose or two for target painters and extra RLML spam. Add a little light EWAR seasoning in blackbird and celestis flavours and sprinkle with the odd cyclone or myrmidon for those awkward sods who refuse to fly caldari and the fleet is done.

  • biased

    possibly do something other than canes maby navy harbi , or myrmidons , just a suggestion.