EVE Universe Podcast Episode 2

 

Greetings Fellow Empyreans I am ashterothi and for episode two of the EVE Universe, we go to WAR.

 

We are the EVE Universe podcast! Bringing in experts from around New Eden with the express intent of putting EVE Online into context for YOU fellow Empyrean. News, updates, and the lore are all picked apart by our expert panel and guests.

The Panel

  • The voice of the novice: Pockets DK – CEO of MALRO @PocketsDK
  • The voice of fleet conflict and PvP – Silver Alliance XO for FEDUP @Silver_Suspiria
  • The voice of Emergent Lore in EVE – Makoto Priano Commander of ARC @MakotoPriano
  • The voice of New Eden – Ashterothi Commander of FEDUP @Ashterothi

Topic: Declarations of War

  • Why have wardecs
  • How do they work?
  • Why don’t they work?
  • Why is this such a controversy?

What the ARC is going on
The Lore You Know : First Gallente/Caldari War

EVE Universe Podcast Episode 2

 

Opening music: Doomed Forever
Closing music: Permaband – Killing is Just a Means of Communication

Silver for CSM!

Tags: Ashterothi, EVE Universe, Makoto Priano, Pockets DK, podcast

About the author

Ashterothi

Ashterothi has spent the last five years learning and teaching EVE Online. He is a host on the highly successful High Drag and Hydrostatic Podcast.


  • DireNecessity

    Great listen Ashterothi. The format you’re setting up shows much promise. In this particular case I especially appreciated your careful work when speaking about War Decs to avoid moralizing. (For reasons I’m not aware of, EVE’s War Dec mechanics seem to drive many players to moralize unthinkingly by offhandedly labeling things ‘exploits’ and ‘trolling’ as if, somehow, they alone truly understand CCP’s intentions while the ‘mechanics abusers’ don’t.)

    One thing I would point out about the discussion (and it was a good discussion) was the presumption that War Decs ought and only should be about territorial disputes. While it’s undoubtedly true that that’s one of the things War Decs should be about, I’m not convinced it’s the only thing they should be about. Cultural disputes seem to my perfectly legitimate reason to go to war (or what’s a religion for?). Such wars aren’t about territory, at least not exactly. In EVE speak, ‘we don’t like the cut of your jib’ seems every bit as legitimate a reason to declare war on a group as ‘we want your space’. In addition, historically speaking, nomadic tribes often attacked city based civilizations with no intention of taking the territory but rather just looting it. Such bandit marauders often had no permanent territory/home – they lived out of tents. They certainly went to war but it wasn’t about territory.

    The underlying presumptions EVE players have about the legitimate purposes of War Decs goes way back. I refer you to one of my personal blog posts from 2015 noting that it referred back to a 2014 discussion: https://casualevedotcom.wordpress.com/category/engineering/page/9/

    Here’s the takeaway if you don’t wish to follow the link:
    >>>A Hi-Sec Mercenary’s Perspective<<<
    Caveat:
    Though I’m no longer a member of the hi-sec wardeccing alliance The Marmite Collective, I was for quite some time and departed on excellent terms. Accordingly, while I can’t speak for Marmites, I doubt they’ll dispute what I relate.

    1) Mercenaries are a blood thirsty group. (If they weren’t blood thirsty, they wouldn’t be mercenaries.)
    2) If you’re to run a successful mercenary operation you must find a way to feed your ravenous group an unending supply of tasty prey.
    3) Standup contracts where you’re hired to settle a dispute for a client aren’t uncommon but in isolation they rarely supply enough prey to satisfy your hungry pride of predators.
    4) Accordingly you end up declaring war on large entities like the Goons, RvB and/or Brave Collective to increase the prey count.
    5) This is expensive meaning that to keep the war coffers filled you must locate additional sources of revenue.
    6) Being wardeccers by trade, one easy source of revenue is wardeccing numerous, smaller parties neither you nor any anyone else has a dispute with but – of course – allowing them to no harm/no foul surrender for a reasonable fee. Not only does this fill the coffers when they pay up, it increases the prey count when they don’t. Win/Win all around from the mercenary perspective.

    Conclusion:
    Unless changes *vastly* increase the ‘legitimate’ prey count, mercenaries will end up running a robust protection racket just to keep the profession afloat. Current mercenaries are, of course, comfortable with ‘wardec extortion’ or they wouldn’t be mercenaries. That said, from outside the profession it certainly appears that merceneries are little but a no e-honor bunch of griefers. While there’s some truth to the accusation, it’s also a result of the current game environment’s limited possibilities.

    • Ashterothi

      The problem is the consequence is setting up some of the most ravenous PvPer of the game to prey on the LEAST experienced players for fun. It also means any attempt to deal with the problem other then running and hiding is met with overwhelming response as it is “exciting” to the hunters. There needs to be an ability to be under their notice. Being in a NPC corp is a terrible solution to a broken system.

      • DireNecessity

        What’s wrong with being in an NPC corp? Pay the tax and when in Highsec (or near a lowsec NPC gun), *always* get CONCORD/NPC retaliation/protection. It’s a great way to be a noob and not all that bad a way to be a vet if all you plan to do is small scale bumble about.

        If you want to declare your allegiance with some player group, it’s not unreasonable to expect some other player group might decide to test that allegiance. Currently, testing someone’s allegiance isn’t structure based. Maybe it should be. Maybe it shouldn’t. If I may be blunt, “Won’t somebody think of the noobs” doesn’t really get at this question one way or the other. Last I checked, EVE University does a great job teaching noobs how to navigate Highsec under a war dec. Maybe it’s unreasonable to expect Highseccers to learn how to play/navigate while wardecced. I don’t think it’s unreasonable but many players do.

        That’s not to say that the structure/constellation idea you explored in the podcast isn’t appealing. I thought it very clever and could see it turning into robust game play. That alone may be enough an advantage to declare other types of wardecs illegitimate and eliminate them from the game.

        • Ashterothi

          One other point that was brought up after was the idea of incentives for the wardeccing group. I think wars, through the war room could be potentially more robust, including adding in agent finder/watchlist type functionality. You gain increased intelligence through the use of your war room during valid wars.

        • Easy Esky

          I would posit that the major of high-sec belligerence success is reliant on ignorance. The NPE do not provide any Player vs Player teaching at all. It is: 1) Scripted 2) NPC 3) PvE concentric. All of this, when so many preach it is a PvP game. This comes from the minutes:

          Jin suggests a gladiator style end to the tutorial where two new players are pitted against each
          other. CCP Affinity says that this would work for some playstyles, but CCP can’t force that on
          everyone.

          CCP should force on everyone. Because players will do it anyway. No where is safe in New Eden. Surely is it better that it be done at a time when: 1. the loss comes with coaching 2. the loss is not devastating 3. The player can be make a decision early about continuing in a cut-throat game.

  • Sparky Doosan

    How can I subscribe to this podcast? I don’t see the RSS link, sorry to be lame.