Engineering Complexes: The conundrum

 

November 8th, the day when America will start to fall and crumble as the voting opens…. Oh wait, wrong topic! Let’s try this again … November 8th, the date set to change EVE Online as we know it; pretty literally if you ask me. From adding something that we have never imagined, a free-to-play model, to what I am going to be talking about in this article; new structures!

Industry is the backbone in EVE and no one can deny that. Without industrialists you have no pretty ships to shoot stuff with. This November we are getting a shakeup with the introduction of what we used to know as Industrial Arrays, renamed to Engineering Complexes as they are now officially called as of the release of this latest Dev Blog.

The Dev Blog was released a little over a week ago as of writing this and this is to be one of the steps into removing POS’s from the game. Don’t worry, they aren’t going anywhere just yet since they still do serve functions that won’t be available for a bit more time, but this is indeed the beginning. These will be changing and shaking up a lot of the industrial gameplay – that’s for sure.

In the Dev Blog we are introduced to the three types of complexes that will be coming out: Raitaru (medium sized sized complex), Azbel (large class sized complex), and Sotiyo (extra-large class sized complex). All of these new structures have special bonuses to industrial activities, like manufacturing and science-based operation times, as well as bonuses to the efficiency of engineering rigs. Now let’s take a look at all these new structures!

raitaru

RAITARU

Role Bonus:
25% bonus to all structure engineering rig effects
5% reduction in manufacturing and science required time
25% reduction in Engineering Service Module fuel consumption
Slot Layout: 3H, 2M, 1L, 3 Service, 1 Launcher
Fittings: 1,200,000 PWG, 15,000 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 4,800,000 / 4,800,000 / 4,800,000
Resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 20 / 20 / 20 / 20
DPS Cap: 5000
Fighter Slots: 0 Tubes
Weekly vulnerability hours: 9
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second): 100,000, 3600s, 27.8
Max Locked Targets: 8
Docking allowed for: all subcapital ships, freighters

The required materials for building a Raitaru are:
Structure Construction Parts   1
Structure Hangar Array   1
Structure Storage Bay   1
Structure Laboratory   1
Structure Factory   1
Structure Repair Facility   1
Structure Reprocessing Bay   1
Structure Docking Bay   1
Structure Office Center   1

At current market prices this represents a build cost of approximately 700 million ISK (price is subject to capsuleer market fluctuations).

azbel

AZBEL

Role Bonus:
25% bonus to all structure engineering rig effects
10% reduction in manufacturing and science required time
25% reduction in Engineering Service Module fuel consumption
Slot Layout: 4H, 3M, 2L, 5 Service, 2 Launcher
Fittings: 2,500,000 PWG, 30,000 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 14,400,000 / 14,400,000 / 14,400,000
Resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 20 / 20 / 20 / 20
DPS Cap: 15,000
Fighter Slots: 3 Tubes, 3 Light, 2 Support
Weekly vulnerability hours: 18
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second): 200,000, 7200s, 27.8
Max Locked Targets: 8
Docking allowed for: all subcapital ships, freighters

The required materials for building an Azbel are:
Structure Construction Parts   6
Structure Hangar Array   4
Structure Storage Bay   4
Structure Laboratory   8
Structure Factory   8
Structure Repair Facility   4
Structure Reprocessing Plant   4
Structure Docking Bay   4
Structure Market Network   4
Structure Medical Center   4
Structure Office Center   4
Structure Advertisement Nexus   4

At current market prices this represents a build cost of approximately 5.2 billion ISK (price is subject to capsuleer market fluctuations).

sot

SOTIYO

Role Bonus:
25% bonus to all structure engineering rig effects
15% reduction in manufacturing and science required time
25% reduction in Engineering Service Module fuel consumption
Slot Layout: 6H, 4M, 3L, 6 Service, 3 Launcher
Fittings: 4,000,000 PWG, 50,000 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 72,000,000 / 72,000,000 / 72,000,000
Resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 20 / 20 / 20 / 20
DPS Cap: 75,000
Fighter Slots: 5 Tubes, 5 Light, 3 Support
Weekly vulnerability hours: 36
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second): 400,000, 14,400s, 27.8
Max Locked Targets: 8
Docking allowed for: all subcapital ships, standard capital ships

The required materials for building a Sotiyo are:
Marines   250
Janitor   500
Structure Construction Parts   60
Structure Hangar Array   40
Structure Storage Bay   40
Structure Laboratory   80
Structure Factory   80
Structure Repair Facility   10
Structure Reprocessing Plant   10
Structure Docking Bay   10
Structure Market Network   10
Structure Medical Center   10
Structure Office Center   10
Structure Mission Network   1
Structure Electromagnetic Sensor   1
Structure Acceleration Coils   1
Structure Advertisement Nexus   8

At current market prices this represents a build cost of approximately 30 billion ISK (price is subject to capsuleer market fluctuations).



Personally, I feel these are indeed going to be very interesting and I am pretty excited, however one thing that I want to mention is their defenses. Putting these side-by-side with their citadel counterparts you can see that their defences are pretty poor – which is a given since there has to be a drawback. From first impressions on the medium alone, it will take less work to bring one down than it is to actually build and anchor it. The medium itself comes with no fighter bay to defend itself even, where it’s counterpart does have the fighter bay. Not only that but it also has a longer window of vulnerability compared to a citadel, something you’d think would be the other way around.

The blueprint prices weren’t stated, but if they are similar to the citadels, they will be nicely up there as well. The estimates for the blueprints have been ranging from the medium being around 7 Bil, the large 52 Bil, and the extra large clocking in at 500 Bil.

Another point that I want to mention is that while in the Dev Blog it mentions that only the extra-large will be able to dock capitals (like the Rorqual) it does seem to say differently on the test server – “The Azbel provides tethering technology and has docking capabilities for capital-size ships and below.” – so it looks like that it has been changed, now needing at least a large Engineering Complex in order to dock a Rorqual inside. Good change in my book!

With the new structures we will also have new rigs and modules as well. They will be listed below with the scaling of rigs based on where the EC is going to be anchored (again, much like the citadel counterparts):


Engineering Service Modules and Rigs

  • Standup Manufacturing Plant I – allows manufacturing of items and ships. This does not include capital and supercapital class ships which have their own dedicated service modules
  • Standup Capital Shipyard I – allows manufacturing of capital ships and can only be installed in large and XL citadels and Engineering Complexes in lowsec, nullsec and wormhole space
  • Standup Supercapital Shipyard I – allows manufacturing supercapital ships and is exclusive for the Sotiyo XL Engineering Complex. This service module also requires capsuleer alliance sovereignty and the “Supercapital Construction Facilities” Infrastructure Hub upgrade
  • Standup Research Lab I – allows research and copying of blueprints
  • Standup Invention Lab I – allows invention of Tech 2 and Tech 3 blueprints

Each Engineering Rig has three sets of bonuses:
One base value for highsec space, one for lowsec space that has a 50% higher bonus than the base value, one for nullsec and wormhole space that has a 67% higher bonus than the base value.

Tech 1 rigs that provide manufacturing material input benefits have the following bonuses:
Highsec: 2.4%, Lowsec: 3.6%, Nullsec: 4%
Tech 2 rigs that provide manufacturing material input have the following bonuses:
Highsec: 2.88%, Lowsec: 4.32%, Nullsec: 4.8%
Tech 1 rigs that provide manufacturing or science job speed benefits have the following bonuses:
Highsec: 24%, Lowsec: 36%, Nullsec: 40%
Tech 2 rigs that provide manufacturing or science job speed benefits have the following bonuses:
Highsec: 28.8%, Lowsec: 43.2%, Nullsec: 48%
Tech 1 rigs that provide science cost reduction benefits have the following bonuses:
Highsec: 12%, Lowsec: 18%, Nullsec: 20%
Tech 2 rigs that provide science cost reduction benefits have the following bonuses:
Highsec: 14.4%, Lowsec: 21.6%, Nullsec: 24%

engineering_complex_10

So these are the new toys for us industrialists. We now have all this new information and the ability to play with the EC’s on the test server – and who doesn’t like to play with new shiny toys? But still, there are some concerns that linger.

It could be too early, but it seems that lowsec industrialists are losing the boost that the Thukker Component Assembly Array gives for producing capital components since there seems to be no counterpart for the complexes.

Solo industrialists seem to also be hit as well because of the cost of maintenance as well as poor defences leaving them powerless. Putting a structure that starts at 700mil, not including the costs of all the rigs and modules, doesn’t seem very appealing when it also has a long time to take the structure down if their solo corp gets wardec’d. So I can see this pushing (or forcing) solo industrialists to either joining a bigger corp/alliance or be pushed to NPC stations.

For the nullsec industrialists, a big concern that I couldn’t shove aside isn’t even in the text of the devblog but rather in a picture that was posted at the very end showing a physical image of a titan being built (confirmed that it was indeed a build animation; and not just a ‘final product’ animation of it coming out of the oven). As someone who actively participates in high end industry, this is not only a risk for the industrialists who work to building them, but also in alliance and coalition level logistics where free intel is basically given out where currently you have to work for that intel. Sure this will generate content, but it’s taking out the work involved in gathering intel on the production status of supers and titans in said EC’s. Why CCP?!

Edit (10/24): Looks like CCP Fozzie has stated on the EVE Online forums that the animation we saw is only a potential feature and not 100%, stating “To be clear, external display of supercap construction is a potential future feature that we can’t 100% promise at this time. It definitely won’t be in the initial Ascension launch.” which is refreshing that they are possibly rethinking/reworking this idea.

engineering_complex_11

A lot of players can agree with me that the current POS system is horrible and this is a step in the right direction overall – however with that said, also looking at the costs with the information we currently have so far, these will for sure be more pricey to manage when you take into account the price of the hull being far more expensive alone than a simple POS, rigs, modules, and fuel needed to maintain it.

Running some math on the costs of buying/making and maintaining a small versus a medium EC, (basing that there is no small EC, so I will use the lowest structure in this comparison) we come up with this:

Basic Raitaru Un-Rigged (Cost Estimate)
Structure: 700 MIL
Service Modules:
Invention:  400 MIL (Fuel: *5 Per Hour/Cycle)
Manufacturing: 200 MIL (Fuel: *5 Per Hour/Cycle)
Research: 200 MIL (Fuel: *5 Per Hour/Cycle)
Module Total: 800 MIL (Fuel: *15 Per Hour/Cycle)
Basic Fitting: 200 MIL
Fuel Needed: 360 Blocks Per Day
Monthly Need: 10,800
Fuel Price:: 1 Block at 23,000 ISK
43,200 x 23,000 = 248,400,000
Initial Investment + First 30 Days:
1,948,400,000

Control Tower Small (Cost Estimate)
Tower: 100 MIL
Basic Modules/Weapons: 500 MIL
Fuel: 10 Per Hour
Fuel Needed: 240 Blocks Per Day
Monthly Need: 7,200
Fuel Price:: 1 Block at 23,000 ISK
7,200 x 23,000 = 165,600,000
Initial Investment + First 30 Days:
765,600,000 ISK

* =Taken into account fuel bonus for engineering service modules

Note that the service module costs were estimated based off the required materials of the BPO’s in an unresearched state where the POS modules and fuel were valued at current Jita market value as of writing this, and fuel values are based off everything running constantly.

The difference either way, even if values are slightly off, is that maintaining a small tower with basic functions versus a basic medium Raitaru structure is going to be a bit more expensive. This is for sure will be a pricey change for a basic structure when you do also take into account the value of everything together (hull/fuel/mods/services), plus (what’s not included in this), rigs – which are also expensive just on their own (with a basic full set starting at 300mil and upwards to over a bil depending on the type of rigs you want to use).  

This is something that, I think, will best be able to be fully utilized by a decent sized corp/alliance; not so much by the solo industrialists (as pointed out earlier) since you need to also be able to also defend it with so much ISK is on the line plus the increased maintenance costs.  You can offline modules if you don’t need them to save fuel costs; but it’s still a pricey investment to have sitting in space that you can’t just pack back up so easily.

Despite everything however, I am still pretty excited in general and with time will we see what the full effects will be. It will be a shake-up, but a much needed shake-up.

 

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Tags: Citadels, engineering complexes, erika mizune, industrial arrays, industry, structures

About the author

Erika Mizune

Erika officially started her Eve career in 2011 after having been introduced to Eve through Eve Radio from DJ’s and listeners in the IRC channel. Nowadays, she's an established industrialist, a manager at EVE Radio, and active in the community.

  • Bill Bones

    CCP is going to make an interesting experiment by essentially forbidding solo industry. I can’t imagine how having less players will benefit the game, but CCP is taking the chance so I will wait and see how the PCU goes.

    • whatever

      They already did make an experiment and it went well. That was POCOs.

      • luobote kong

        If only it was experiment. It is an outdated economic doctrine that for the real world crashed and burned in 2008 but for some reason CCP think is a revolutionary design strategy that will bring in the punters. It isn’t and doesn’t.

        • Jare

          R u dumb? Or do you seriously think this has anything to do with mortgages?

          • luobote kong

            If you think it was about just mortgages…. That’s like saying WW1 was about a gun. Hint it wasn’t.

          • Jare

            Ok technically it was about idiot bankers prioritizing short term returns regardless of the consequences, and pushing people into mortgages they could not possibly afford… still don’t see what this has to do with a video game patch…

      • Easy Esky

        How was the result measured? I have seen planets go without a POCO for several months because latest group merely wardec for a kill. When they cease to be in contest over the income from Planetary Interaction – then the experiement is a failure.

    • daniel

      or you just find a public structure and use that like you did npc stations before the patch.

  • Apothne

    In solo versus group Industry, is this giving an advantage and incentive to social industrial gameplay, restricting higher end content to organised groups as with other end-game content, or completely inhibiting any solo Industrial experience?

    • phuzz

      I guess it’s bringing industry in line with the rest of Eve, no fun unless you have friends.

      • whatever

        solo pvp does not exist, right?

      • luobote kong

        Pretty much this. It is not that it is completely inhibited. It isn’t necessarily a solo versus organised debate either. It is just brings industry into line with the other solo/independent activities that have been similarly castrated as Eve evolves/dissolves into a group hug activity. Great is you liked being a boy scout or a girl guide I suppose

      • Bill Bones

        Yeah, that should be the new marketing campaign: “Make friends and in the event that they don’t backstab you, nor you backstab them, and none of the parts involved is a internet jerk, you will have fun like in no other game” -because everybody stopped developing games like this in 2009…

      • And you better know these friends and trust them in RL, as many ‘friends’ you meet in game will betray you when they can make enough out of it. There are no risks to them with the anonymity of alts…

    • Bozo

      Social industrial gameplay is not a thing, because:

      – It’s dangerous (1): to be effective, you need more than one character. Swapping items, blueprints and the like between your alts is best done with corp hangars. So you either have your own corp, or you are trusting that the corp’s directors and CEO will never decide to go rogue and steal everything. My indie toon is never, ever, doing industry in someone else’s corp again (unless I only do the equivalent of an F1 pusher, lending my production slots in exchange for a salary, I guess). Did it once, was too stressful.

      – It’s dangerous (2): if you gather too many industrials in highsec, the indexes will reflect it and you’ll be found out and wardecced. Which is not dangerous, but will shut down your operations for a while.

      – There’s no point to it (1): would you rather trust your alts to handle boring stuff like additional PI and research / manufacturing slots, or ask another human being who will likely have other ideas than your own?

      – There’s no point to it (2): the game has no accounting mechanisms, so fair profit-sharing is hard. If you do everything by yourself, you’re certain you’re not getting shafted by management.

      – There’s no point to it (3): Unlike pvp, there is no loss in efficiency from a 10-people operation and a 10-alts one. Also, the majority of people who want to do industry are autists who like to pore over figures and maximize their profit in order to be THE BIGGEST BADDEST RICHEST MOFO AROUND MWAHAHAHAHA! – and find that being a clog in a rich corp is less satisfying than being the proud owner of your own prosperous indie corp. Just the way things are.

      TL-DR: until CCP makes industry something other than “make a few clicks, wait” with most of the work being out of game i.e. market research and calculating your profitability, the only people doing collective industry will be the supers-building corps (and even some of those are solo ops).

  • bob@wormholes.com

    CCP is destroying industry.
    Basicly except null sec every industrialist is a solo player.
    You know why? Less intell slips, less likely to get waedecced, no one to steal your market. And also you don’t want to get your main corp to be a target.
    Even if industrialist will band to gether they will be found out and PERMA-WARDECCED.
    So this makes it useless to use the medium engineering complexes in high sec except if you have a PERMANENT pvp corp.
    The only way for industry to work after the posses are gone is ONLY using NPC stations.

    • whatever

      everyone who sets a fortizar will get PERMA-WARDECCED!!!11oneone
      but for some reason Perimeter is full of them

  • Ragelle

    Ok so here are some counter arguments:

    1. The small tower runs into PG and CPU limitations compared to the Raitaru which basically has infinite industry slots versus the limited slots of the small tower. Comparing a Raitaru to a small POS is a stretch. The vast majority of industry in HS is being done in Large POSes (or Mediums in some cases). The vastly effects the cost differentials you provide. Any industrialist (solo or not) operating any kind of continuous production gains an enormous advantage in being able to work out of a station structure (with unified inventory) in comparison with POS operations (moving things between structure every build). Raitaru’s have unlimited station hangers — if you’ve done serious industry out of a corp hanger or ship maintenance array and not wanted to commit suicide you sir have fortitude.

    2. Defenses – If we are going to compare a Raitaru and argue that a small pos is the benchmark for the industry comparison then that needs to be the defense comparison:

    Raitaru — vulnerable in HS only to wardecs, 9 hours limited vulnerability dictated by the owner, defenses are minor to anyone that can run a 5 man fleet
    Small POS — vulnerable in HS only to wardecs, 23/7 vulnerability dictated by the attacker, defenses are minor to anyone that can run 5 man fleet

    Industrialists give up really nothing in the vulnerability. The destruction of a Raitaru guarantees the destruction of your minerals and items in build — absolutely nothing else other than the invested ISK in the structure … prints/ships/modules/materials are all protected by the safety system and moved to a nearby station. The destruction of the small pos carries greater risk because for any serious industrialist the ISK is in the BPO’s not any individual build and having those at risk in a structure than can drop them gives the attackers greater incentive to wardec you. Most wardec corps are looking for loot, tears, or blackmail – that doesn’t change and the EC’s make it less likely for you to provide any of those 3. Yes, you can pull down the small pos faster but really you aren’t going to. The ability of the attacker to hit you 24 hrs after his declared wardec limits your window to do so safely. What’s more likely attackers hitting your EC on an odd time zone you set to be a pain in the ass (and doing so 3 times), or them hitting your small pos whenever they feel like it (or the stront holds)?

    • bob@wormholes.com

      Pff, you see to forget to max out everything you will need several medium engineering complexes. wich means the cost is even bigger then only the one engineering complex.
      In a pos you can have the flexebility you want(to react to market changes wich are every patch thanks to the new patch cycle), not in a engineering complex.
      Thanks to the rigs you are stuck with what rigs choose to produce there. Rigs only serve to limit people .

      Besides that the loss of a medium engineering complex is 3 times that of a small pos wich is engouh for a solo industry player.
      Bpo safety is never an issue since you don’t use it in a pos.

      If you do industry stick with a pos.

    • CarlGustav

      Who has its bpo:s in a pos???? you only have copies in a POS….

  • Kines Pavelovna

    You have to fit and rig them differently.

    Put an equipment ME/TE rig with a manufacturing plant on a medium. The fuel cost is 15 blocks/hr with a 3/29.76 percent bonus for 1.1-ish billion in hull+fittings and 248 mil a month in fuel costs. Then set up another medium with Invention or Research on the rigs. Between the two you have a faction large POS in monthly fuel costs, 30 blocks an hour, a large faction POS in facility costs (Yes a large guristas POS with fittings is 2.2+bill; 2.5+ for a dread) with slightly better manufacturing bonuses and more vulnerability.

    There are things you can complain about for sure. For one I don’t see any reason to move out of a POS production facility into even a large engineering array – even if the costs are about identical. Simply because I am lazy and the ME/TE bonus isn’t great.

    On the more vulnerable, I’m not so sure I agree, at least in principle. Each facility has 3 reinforcement timers, a 16 minute time to reinforce at the dps cap (for a medium), and no BPO drops. The biggest deterrent with a POS is the reinforcement timer not the guns (granted that’s very thin on its own). Since you’re already putting up multiples IDK try putting them ontop of each other and they can add some support dps to each other. (I think you can get the range on the launcher up to 1300km but I haven’t goofed with the things in PYFA or anything yet) If you have a corp astrahus on grid you can get 3 facilities within range of each other with each facility at the vertex of a triangle.

    • One Two

      space is 3d, you could get 4 within 1000km of each other in a tetrahedron shape…. like a 1d4

  • Kamar Raimo

    Since I haven’t dealt with the new structures in depth, I wonder: Would it be possible to anchor a Citadel and an EC close enough together that the EC can benefit from Citadel defences, like for example sending fighter squadrons over?

    • bob@wormholes.com

      Nope, they need to be at least 1000 km away from each other.

  • Do Little

    I currently do my highsec industry in a small POS. It has a design lab and several assembly arrays. The POS is undefended in highsec – it will take less than an hour to disassemble it and store in a station if wardecced. The POS, like a station, has unlimited lines and we typically have 50 – 60 jobs running at any given time. The POS cost roughly 300 mil total, I figure a medium EC with equivalent functionality would cost 5 times as much and burn 4.5 times as much fuel.

    There is no question the EC is more convenient to work in but 7 divisions between 2 players is workable with offices in a nearby station.

    I’ll admit that I am very disappointed in the Engineering Complexes and will continue to use the POS until CCP removes it from the game. After that, I don’t know – renting space in someone elses EC is not an appealing option. I’ll probably move back to working in a station. The main cost is the loss of the TE bonus. The ME bonus at the POS barely covers the fuel cost.

    That’s the story for my highsec operation – my nullsec crew will probably move to an EC as soon as my corp/alliance builds one – down there they make sense.

    • Kamar Raimo

      I wonder whether some industrialist spreadsheet guru has already run the numbers on how long it takes to break even when you compare cost/benefit of running an EC to a small POS or doing the same in an NPC station.

      • bob@wormholes.com

        you need at least have 50 jobs running constanly to even break even in a year.

    • CarlGustav

      i was running mine in a big pos and i did have the guns “offlined” around the tower
      it took me awhile to offline/online when we got decked but since i just left my char lingering in the tower (pos gunner) never had any problems from deckers once they figured out i defended it.
      1 week downtime or well 1 week i couldn’t go to jita…

  • dino

    I might be wrong but solo indy corp were required because of trust issue; you need to be CEO to use BPO or to handle industry job in a POS without theft risks.

    The new station / indy. array fixes it. Indy job can be safely done within someone else corp. I don’t see any issue in those structure not targeting solo deployment.

    • CarlGustav

      No i was the industry director of my alliance.
      this is how we ran it.

      1# a industry corp was created side by side with our corporation
      2# the corp have 7 wallets so we have 7 layers of industry
      3# all the wallets have coresponding hangers so there is no risk of messing it up.
      4# all BPO is locked (not 100% safe since CCP somtimes unlock them)
      5# all caps/Supercap production is run by 2-4man group in a specialized corporation due to risk/value of bpo
      6# you keep your BPO if you got personal bpo in corp hangers in a specific station that was noted in a spread sheet. thus i would know who owned what in the corp hangers (if not in list then its the corp) (only directors could edit sheet, everyone could look)

      only risk is that anyone yes anyone with the correct rights could cancel a build for someone else.
      not a big risk but a risk thats why the very expensive stuff was out of this corp.

      because if you stop my 10×10 runs of producing Pilgrims for example the corp guaranteed that i got my isk for mats back and the one responsble would be held accounted for.

      The one thing that i didn’t like about the citadel launch was that they took it in oposit direction that i wanted.
      i would like it to be modular. Example where each module was running on CPU and power and cpu you could add a specified CPU module to enhance it that runs on power and then it would just be a matter of adding the services we desire to the citadel
      example if i want my deathstar to have 2000 missil launchers then i can fit it but i will have to pay for it in fuel ever day.
      that way ccp should only have added one citadel and the number of modules added decides what type it is.

      thay way you could “Starve” a deathstart to death by cynojam the system and gatecamp it untill it runs out of fuel and have to power down.

      • Bozo

        Note that in your system, your industrials are still relying on the industrial corp’s directors not to steal everything from the corp hangars and wallets.
        For a solo manufacturer, losing his BPOs and stockpiles is shattering. No reason to trust anyone else with that. On the other hand, as dino wrote, you can have your own private corp (and therefore asset security) in a complex, and have the complex owned by, say, an alliance or a grouping of individual corps, with each member contributing to paying for the costs.
        So that’s useful to mutualize costs.
        It’s not useful in making cooperative industry a thing, and as you wrote we’re losing flexibility compared to the POS.

  • Bozo

    The main casualty is flexibility.

    In my large POS, I can refine, research, do invention, and build pretty much everything I need. If I want to switch production, I can offline those arrays I’m not using and online the ones I’m switching to.

    WIth the new system, you need one structure for reprocess, one structure for research and one for manufacturing. You get slightly better bonuses, which is no gain at all since you’ll be competing against people with the same bonuses. You get unlimited corp hangars which is definitely a plus. You are forced to move stuff back and forth between different structures, which is a pain.

    TL-DR: Crius gave manufacturers a better interface at the cost of a large chunk of their profit, now those who had forgotten what the gameplay nerfbat felt like are about to get the 2016 version.

  • Provi Miner

    Not sure I follow the initial cost. I am pretty sure the goal is to offset the stupid vul timers with lower costs to build something like 1/10 th the cost as I recall