Apate

Dear CCP Jólasveinar

 

Dear CCP Santa,

I’ve been a really good boy this year. I really, really, really want some new toys for Christmas, so I hope I’ve behaved well enough. I’ll be leaving out some Sainsbury’s finest sea-salt on my C: drive for when you visit, mixed into a cup of tears just the way you like it.

Heavy Assault Battleships

Seeing continued aggression within their borders, the empires committed their entire treasuries to developing line of sub-capitals based on technological advances gained from the recent availability of Drifter materials, to put a resolute end to these and all future incursions. While each empire openly denied such experimentation to each other and to CONCORD, each knew what the other was up to and raced to be finished both first and with the most powerful end product.

I don’t care if they’d ruin the meta, I don’t care if they are astronomically expensive, I want some new pin-ups for Rixx to make posters of and to generate amazing killmails. I want the Lamborghini, Ferrari, Koenigsegg and Pagani of New Eden.

Slightly more seriously, one of the complaints about modern EVE is that we don’t really see battleships enough. There are plenty of factors that contribute to this; signature radius links, T3 cruisers, battleships’ innate immobility, an irregular/discontinuous progression of escalation from frigates up to BCs, but I think there’s a factor less talked about too. Imagine we lived in a world (which some players believe we do) where anything battlecruiser sized and above didn’t exist. Only take away all T2 Cruisers and T3 ones as well. What would contend the might of T3D fleets with their T2 logi?

Very few cruiser hulls would be broadly “viable”, the Orthrus would reign on as ever, but of the vanilla T1 cruisers we’d have maybe only the Caracal as a real contender. Back in regular EVE, T1 Cruisers fight up as well as down, a blob of arty Ruptures, rail Moas or HML Caracals can fight their T2 brethren in the clichéd large newbro vs small bittervet fight. With their extra projection and application, T2 and T3 cruisers keep frigates and dessies from being the 100% go to, and their existence in part gives a use for vanilla cruisers which can fight for the ISK war, even if not the kill/death ratio.

I think it’s fair to say we see something similar from the top-end battleship line. The Machariel, Rattlesnake and the Tempest Fleet Issue see fleet play, but there is such less choice. What’s more, if there were T2 battleships that were good for fleet work, T1 battleships would be a great choice of ship to engage them if you had the numbers but not the assets to bring such an expensive fleet comp. Again, yes, there are many other factors involved such as the existence of bombs, capitals and signature links, but this, I think, is still a valid line of reasoning to bring battleships into play without them dominating the meta if they are priced appropriately.

Now, I’m expressedly going to make these mock-ups a “touch” overpowered, but it’s my Christmas list and I can ask for unicorns if I want to. You should not be taking this article from me as a 100% serious “these should be in the game”, but more as some fun food for discussion and daydreaming in EFT, with perhaps a grain of realism behind the viability of them at a conceptual level.

Apate

Apate

Hull: Hyperion Class

Developer: Roden Shipyards

Role: Heavy Assault Battleship

Unlike most Gallente ship manufacturers, Roden Shipyards tend to favor missiles over drones and their ships generally possess stronger armor. Their electronics capacity, however, tends to be weaker than ships from their competitors.

Gallente Battleship Bonus (per skill level):

5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret rate of fire

7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed

Heavy Assault Battleship bonuses (per skill level):

7.5% bonus to Armour Repairer amount

7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid turret optimal range

Role bonus:

25% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage

50% reduction in Microwarpdrive signature radius penalty

20% reduction in Large Hybrid Turret signature resolution

Slot layout: 8H 4M 7L, 6 turrets, 2 launchers

2 Rigs Slots: 400 Calibration

Fittings: 640 CPU, 16,000 PG

Defense: (shields / armour / hull): 8500 / 9000 / 10,500

Base shield resistances: (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 60 / 85 / 50

Base armour resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 67.5 / 83.75 / 10

Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 7500 / 1500 / 5

Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 125 / 0.1278 / 100,200,000 / 2.3 / 17.8

Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 175

Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 85 / 130 / 8

Sensor strength: 35

Signature radius: 450

Cargo hold: 625

Creodron got the Sin and Duvolle got the Kronos so it’s up to Roden to build the Aparte. Possibly it has more drones than a typical Roden ship, I’ve let it keep that many as it’s the amount on a vanilla Hyperion. I’m not sure whether I prefer the optimal bonus or want another flat damage bonus, but the optimal fits with the developer flavour and is a more useful bonus.

Deliverance

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Hull: Abaddon Class

Developer: Carthum Conglomerate

Role: Heavy Assault Battleship

Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapon systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronic and shield systems tend to be rather limited.

Amarr Battleship bonuses (per skill level):

5% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage

4% bonus to all armour resistances

Heavy Assault Battleship bonuses (per skill level):

10% reduction in Large Energy Turret activation cost

7.5%% bonus to Large Energy turret optimal range

Role bonus:

25% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage

50% reduction in Microwarpdrive signature radius penalty

20% reduction in Large Energy Turret signature resolution

Slot layout: 8H 3M 8L, 6 turrets

2 Rigs Slots: 400 Calibration

Fittings: 5750 CPU, 21,000 PG

Defense: (shields / armour / hull): 8050 / 10,625 / 8800

Base shield resistances: (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 20 / 70 / 87.5

Base armour resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 35 / 62.5 / 80

Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 6500 / 1250 / 5.2

Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 99 / 0.15 / 103,200,000 / 2.3 / 21.5

Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 98 / 92 / 8

Sensor strength: 34

Signature radius: 455

Cargo hold: 550

Yes, technically speaking it should be Khanid’s turn to do a T2 Amarr battleship, but that would have meant missiles and just no. I WANT MAH LAZORZ. Holy Amarr would be using the divine cleansing of energy weapon technology on their top-of-the-line vessel. Carthum Co. means I have to have that weird activation reduction bonus, but hey, whatever.

Horus

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Hull: Rokh Class

Developer: Ishukone

Role: Heavy Assault Battleship

Caldari Battleship bonuses (per skill level):

10% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range

4% bonus to all shield resistances

Heavy Assault Battleship bonuses (per skill level):

10% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range

5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage

Role bonus:

25% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage

50% reduction in Microwarpdrive signature radius penalty

20% reduction in Large Hybrid Turret signature resolution

Slot layout: 8H 8M 3L, 6 turrets

2 Rigs Slots: 400 Calibration

Fittings: 785 CPU, 15,500 PG

Defense: (shields / armour / hull): 8700 / 7250 / 7750

Base shield resistances: (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 80 / 70 / 50

Base armour resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 86.25 / 62.5 / 10

Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 6100 / 1250 / 4.9

Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 99 / 0.146 / 105,300,000 / 2.3 / 21.3

Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 110 / 78 / 8

Sensor strength: 37

Signature radius: 495

Cargo hold: 600

I’ve already been plenty vocal in my dislike of double 10% optimal bonuses being too strong on ships such as the Eagle, Harpy, Tengu and Cerberus, but I’m still working hard on maintaining consistency in the design of these ships.

Mjolnir

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Hull: Maelstrom Class

Developer: Core Complexion Inc.

Role: Heavy Assault Battleship

Minmatar Battleship bonuses (per skill level):

5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire

7.5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret Falloff

Heavy Assault Battleship Bonuses (per skill level):

7.5% bonus to Shield Boost amount

5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage

Role bonus:

25% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage

50% reduction in Microwarpdrive signature radius penalty

20% reduction in Large Projectile Turret signature resolution

Slot layout: 8H 6M 5L, 6 turrets

2 Rigs Slots: 400 Calibration

Fittings: 650 CPU, 21,000 PG

Defense: (shields / armour / hull): 8400 / 8300 / 7200

Base shield resistances: (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 75 / 60 / 40 / 50

Base armour resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 90 / 67.5 / 25 / 10

Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 6250 / 1250 / 5

Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 109 / 0.146 / 103,600,000 / 2.3 / 21

Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 92 / 92 / 8

Sensor strength: 30

Signature radius: 450

Cargo hold: 575

I wasn’t sure whether I wanted to go for missiles or projectiles on this one, but there are plenty of missile BS out there already, projectiles deserve a little more love.

Role bonuses

As I mentioned, I was looking for these to be able to take on sturdy cruiser doctrines a little better than current battleship comps, without that bonus making them any stronger against regular battleships such that their existence actually helps promote battleship gameplay across the ship class. The signature resolution bonus on guns becomes an obvious choice, yet is a figure we’ve seen CCP never really play with for hull bonuses on turret ships. The removal or nerfing of skirmish links may render it too strong (though it probably already is anyway), but for the now it is interesting to consider. The MWD bloom bonus is nice for ~some~ damage mitigation against dreads and the like, though obviously a well supported dread fleet will have few issues ripping through them, especially with the new high-angle guns coming in the capital rebalance.

This is (one of) my fantasy list(s) for a new line of EVE ships, what’s yours? Would you like to see other fantasy hull classes in future? Let me know in the comments or on twitter @CallMeApoth.

 

Tags: apothne, heavy assault battleships

About the author

Apothne

Apothne is a proud member of Sniggerdly and an experienced roaming FC. He is a Guest FC and Lecturer for EVE University and anyone who invites him to ramble on their comms for a few hours, as well as running EVE University's Fleet Command Course. He casted AT XII & ATXIII from Iceland, casts #EVE_NT Collides, hosts #EVE_NT Fight Club, has a crush on CCP Mimic and spends far too much time playing and talking about EVE. He likes maths, music, ice cream and interesting decisions in fleet PvP.

  • JZ909

    Well that looks fun! What I want for battleships is unnerfed Marauders. Give them decent sensor strength, and move the bastion weapon bonuses from bastion bonuses to hull bonuses so they have them all the time. That way, they are lower DPS, high-tank, long-range alternates to pirate faction battleships for fleets, and still the awesome solo PvE ships they are now.

    My dream class of ships are T2 attack battlecruisers. They trade the large guns for a set of anti-capital guns, doing ~2000 DPS fully upgraded. They can only fire at targets directly in front of them, and only when a special module is turned on, which cycles for 15 seconds, locks steering, and prevents warp. Guns can’t be fired until the second cycle, and using it the module in high-sec is a criminal offense. Also, they have recon resists rather than full T2 to make them a little less tanky. Basicly, I want these to be a panic-inducing threat to capital fleets, but a juicy target to almost every subcsp fleet.

  • Aebe Amraen

    > The signature resolution bonus on guns becomes an obvious choice, yet is a figure we’ve seen CCP never really play with for hull bonuses on turret ships.

    Probably because buffing signature resolution is exactly equivalent (check the tracking formula) to buffing tracking speed. Your 20% sig res bonus will have exactly the same effect as a 25% (1/0.8 = 1.25) tracking bonus. Putting the buff on sig res instead of tracking is pointless and serves only to confuse people.

    • asdf

      I’m pretty sure there was another article where apothne didn’t understand this

      and yeah, dear ccp, please delete/repurpose all ‘heavy assault’ t2/t3 ships and bring t1 back

      • JZ909

        The issue right now is that T3s>pirate faction>T2s>navy faction>T1s. In other words, ships lower on the todem pole are simply not competitive. In my opinion, their should be ship tiericide, where all ships have a place in the meta. Here’s how I think it should go:

        T1 ships should be cheap and moderately flexible. Decent utility, decent weapon bonuses, but nothing spectacular.

        Navy faction should be optimized for application against smaller ships with lower DPS than T1.

        Pirate faction should have exotic, and very useful, bonuses, but ~T1 DPS.

        T2 ships should have a special ability (whether that be damage, EWAR, whatever), a heavy tank, and little else, so in coordinated fleets, they are the best possible bang for your buck, but easy targets when isolated.

        T3 ships should be able to specialize to multiple different roles, but should not be superior to T2s at any given role, or ever be as tanky. I’m ok with them being somewhat superior generalists than T1s as well.

  • Inzek

    Love the idea!!
    Gallente with optimal? maybe fall-off is more suited, also it’ll make it different from cadari not just “weaker”. Mixed bonus for gall and minmie? a la BC?
    You forgot the MJD role bonus “25-50-75% activation and cooldown reduction on MJD”

  • Viince_Snetterton

    CCP has created a new flavour of power creep with the constant addition of new ships. which is proven by the fact you have quite rightly recognized that BS’s pretty much suck.

    The problem, however, is not more ships, but fixing the current ones.

  • Danmal

    I do not think the game needs a new ship class right now, after having just gotten two and another one incoming, or a deeper skill queue, or putting more ships out of a younger player’s reach.

    Battleships are fairly awesome as is and cheap. Their problem is application to small targets and sensor strength (the sensor strength issue is true for BCs as well), or more generally susceptibility to ewar. In my opinion it shouldn’t be the case that I can take out a Megathron in an ABing Incursus because it’s impossible to track even with two webs and scram on it. It also shouldn’t be the case that a single Griffin can jam my Sleip or a BS for 5 or 6 out of 8 jam cycles that I am alive. I would say that all forms of e-war on the ewar bonused hulls are overpowered, except perhaps paints.

    For large fleets battleships probably have the added problem that their advantage over T3s is limited if they have one at all.

    • JZ909

      I’m ok with battleships struggling to shoot small targets with their guns, but I would like to see them get larger drone bays (but no more bandwidth), so they have a more survivable form of frig defense. Right now, I think it’s just a little too easy to kill off their drones and slowly bleed them out.

      • X Gallentius

        The Japanese BS in WWII hated low sig-res American Destroyers and subs too. That’s why they had escorts.

        • JZ909

          Correct, they also had hefty secondary batteries that were more appropriate for engaging smaller ships. However, that is not simulated in Eve. Point being that Eve balance, and WWII ship balance are very different, and while it may useful to consider naval warfare in game design, it’s not a naval warfare simulater, so it doesn’t need to be a direct parallel.

  • DarkMalfunction

    Aren’t those hull textures wrong for the manufacturers?

  • MuonNeutrino

    These are an interesting idea, for sure. I’m not familiar enough with the meta for large ships to really fully understand how they’d fit in, but I can see the basic idea. I do have a couple of tweaks/notes, though.

    First, as noted below, the signature resolution bonus is mathematically equivalent to a tracking bonus, so you might as well just do that. Second, you seem to have forgotten the drone listings on the non-Gallente ones. (I’m assuming they *do* have at least small drone bays, right? Their base versions do, after all, as do most HACs, so these probably should too, especially since drones are one of the best ways to apply damage to down-size targets as these seem to be trying to do.) Finally, I think I’d give the Horus 7M4L rather than 8M3L – right now, it’s the only one of the four which can’t mount triple damage mods plus a damage control.

    As for the ‘other fantasy ships’ question, I used to have a fantasy design for a set of logi destroyers, but that has become rather moot with the new logi frigs. I’ve also wondered for a while if there could be anything done with a sort of ‘ewar drone boat’ line since those are normally so useless, but I’ve had a hard time figuring out a way to make them interesting without also just being a roundabout way to duplicate existing ewar ships.

  • Rusty Boon

    I am sorry but, the best thing about the Assault versions of Amarr is because they are focused on missiles. Rockets for frigs, HAMs for cruiser, and going the same line it should be Torps for the BS. Disgusting damage application, short range, amazing tank. I for one love the idea of Assault BS’s, but this one you got wrong the others look great though.

    • Grath

      So the Zealot, arguably the Amarr premier Heavy Assault Cruiser uses lasers.

      Maybe you hadn’t noticed.

    • F U Mittens

      I’d be down for a torp abaddon.

  • Torych Beldrulf

    Unfortunately you got it wrong right from the start.

    It’s Tesco’s Finest; Sainsbury’s is Taste the Difference 🙂

  • X Gallentius

    Can we just STOP with the armor repair bonus on T2 Gallente hulls? T2 ships are supposed to be fleet ships for Gallente’s Sake! (back to your regularly scheduled posting)

  • F U Mittens

    Dreads are basically the t2 battleship. with the new cap size prop mods and ewar along with t2 capital guns and small caliber cap guns you might as well get into one. There will be a lot more caps exploding after the cap changes.