CZM: A Small Step For Man…Niden
If you were to collect all that has been written on null capitals and force projection over the past couple of years it is likely you would end up with a bible-sized book. After years of agonising anticipation, CCP has taken the first real step towards changing a stagnating null security space.
On the o7 show that aired on Thursday evening, CCP announced that capital jump drive capabilities will be significantly reduced. The ramifications for nullsec and EVE at large are fundamental, changing how null entities will be able to operate and engage.
By all accounts this is the first step on the journey towards a brave new null. The question is: is this a good first step? How will it affect null?
Hendrick: First let’s look at the changes and how I think they can play out. This first new change is to limit the distance of the capitals ability to jump across space. That’s quite literally all that was expanded upon in this “reveal.” While a reduction is all well and good, like with everything there are ways to work around it and the larger groups like the CFC, N3, HERO, Provi etc. will find it and exploit it. The added pressure this could have to infrastructure for bridging titans (and at present jump freighters as no detail says they aren’t exempt) won’t achieve CCP’s goal on it’s own. There’s not enough information on this change, let alone the other upcoming changes, that can be processed, analyzed and commented on.
The biggest fault of CCP in this announcement is specifically how they revealed it. While I’m not a big fan of how the show was formatted, “o7” was marred by a premature publicity stunt. Much like during Fanfest 2013, CCP only hinted at some stuff and then promised a dev blog in a few weeks. Currently the dev blog regarding these changes to capitals isn’t going to come out until an estimated “first or second week of October” according to CCP Greyscale. So the announcement is made on the 25th of September, and at the latest the details won’t come out until either the 11th or the 18th (depending on how you count “week of October”). Essentially that’s two weeks of not knowing what this change actually is before the information is ready. That’s a long period of time for people to speculate, assume, argue, and yell wildly over a small change that also has no firm release date. CCP Nullabor and Greyscale still don’t know which of the two remaining expansions the change will be included in, and it’s even likely that the changes can be pushed back to 2015 after testing. Ultimately, this wasn’t really a necessary announcement for CCP’s new Twitch.TV show, it could have waited a while.
Forlorn: You know, when i first saw the EVE o7 logo, I thought it was a farewell o7 and they were going to announce shutting EVE down.
Xander: Just going to add here – these changes were all proposed to CCP by Manfred Sideous, premiere PL FC. Just sayin’ before I jump in later.
Changes suggested by a PL FC and implemented and backed by (amongst others), CCP Fozzie. Go Team PEE ELLS!
Apoth: We have very few details, and I know largely fuck all about organising and running a Sov Empire or running large scale campaigns. Hell, I only use my Archon once every few months to move where I live, so that might become more expensive/tiresome. The most I am willing to state at this point is “They are trying to change null. The people we elected to make these decisions and the people who work for the company thinks they are good changes, It might change Null for the better.” Having said that, someone please call Phall and make sure he’s okay.
Niden: Given that CCP have stated clearly that they are taking real steps, as opposed to small tweaks, I’m willing to bet that this change is intended to have a real effect and will thus be proportionate to that, making it highly relevant even though we don’t have the exact figures yet.
“This will change how larger entities in null are able to operate”
Like Apothne, I know fuck all about running a space empire in null, so I can only speculate, but surely, assuming what I said above is true, this will change how larger entities in null are able to operate. Doesn’t it lend itself to breaking up the ability to run oversized blue blobs of space? Also, doesn’t this time between announcement and dev blog give us as the community at large an excellent opportunity to give feedback on exactly how we would like the changes to be?
Forlorn: I am not worried about a change with capitals and supercapitals. PL has shown so often to be an early adopter to whatever happens ingame. What bothers me that whenever I think CCP finally gets it and communicates properly some old guard~ comes up and drops a bomb. Remember when the change of Tech was announced in FF2013: there was a devblog up right during presentation revealing all details. This was very good. And now this time there is a few words of something many already expected and details follow weeks later. That is retarded in so many ways. People coming back to EVE after the summer now look into not resubbing their capital alts just because they don’t know what changes are coming. Other people may ride a hubris of “death to all jumpdrives” for a few weeks just to see the details being not what they thought based on this little piece of information – just to be disappointed very soon.
Hendrick: Well even with the Tech changes announced at FF2013 it was poorly presented Forlorn. The basic presentation went “hey guys, you know tech? well let’s talk about tech, oh by the way there are changes for tech. We can’t tell you what those changes are outright or in full detail here during this presentation we designated for tech discussion, so go read a devblog we’ll have up in the next week on it.” This happened with a lot of things, not just Tech changes. In comparison, sure it’s good but it’s a failure of basic communication skills a company like CCP should be capable of. I mean, they’re not like some dinosaur-era survival game developer who goes silent for several months with no communication. (Note: I’m still a bit bitter about that game).
Manfred: Ok so if you look at possible solutions to revitalize nullsec there are only a few that would really make a difference. 1. They could increase the size of null. This isn’t pragmatic as it is only a stopgap and doesn’t change the status quo. Furthermore it only increases the server hardware CCP would need for little net results. 2. They can spread nullsec out more but again it doesn’t change the status quo. 3. They can cure the disease instead of treating the symptoms. The disease is unfettered power projection. The ability to move without consequence at any time is a disease on Eve.
“You end up with a situation where lots of new groups move out to nullsec.”
I think they will do a few things. It will come in this order. Power Projection nerf , Nullsec industry and resource buffs , Sov updates ( tieing sov to indexes and reducing EHP on structures whilst creating a sliding scale resistance based off indexes). Logistic nerf as in ( Bye bye JF to Jita on a whim). So we will end up with a scenario where controlling underutilized sov or unconnected sov will be expensive furthermore underutilized sov will be easier to conquer. You then add in the Power Projection nerf and you end up with a nullsec where conflicts are more regional. You end up with a situation where lots of new groups move out to nullsec. You end up with a more populated nullsec with new alliances and coalitions springing up. You will start to see current coalitions shrink. The wars of where every nullsec alliance is involved and all deployed to a central point will be a thing of the past.
You will see mercenary groups become very relevant. We are literally on the cusp of Eve Online becoming very very exciting, I relish in the moment when I get to say “told you so”.
HVAC: The announcement (and nerfing capital projection is a BIG announcement) was fairly botched, but I’m glad it was made. I’d like to see sov where regional conflicts are possible, and ramifications of diverting resources when an entity deploys far away from home. Right now almost every single entity can move their capitals from one side of the galaxy to the other in minutes. I haven’t really done anything in the past two years besides fly in capital ops so a nerf hits my playstyle the most, but it’s something that definitely needs to be done.
The issue of power projection has been a topic of debate for some years now, and I’ve always been in favor of it. Now a lot of people might say that it benefits me because of who I fly with, and that may be true to some extent, but usually when I push for a heavy nerf it’s in the best interest of EVE as a whole. I’d love to see an EVE where the coalitions have been nuked by mechanical changes. The ability to move hundreds of caps, with the only commitment being fuel costs and the time to move cynos around, is a big hinderance to where I think nullsec can be and should be. Making capital escalations much more difficult might make subcapital fights happen more, if the threat of capitals is diminished.
Forlorn: I concur. Especially the option to escalate regional conflicts with capitals will increase the use of caps. As no group can notice all their allies or capital heavy groups like PL, N3 or CFC smaller groups can reinforce structures or use triage more often and safer as before as their 5 min timer runs out and we can’t appear on grid from 3 mids away.
Hendrick: Like Manny said, if the steps and likely outcome resulting from this and any upcoming changes means more smaller groups being a thing and more regional conflicts being the focus of Null wars, then that’s good for pretty much everyone. There are dozens of systems in most regions that just aren’t used but are “controlled” by an alliance/coalition. A penalty for having unused space would be a great step to incentivize using all your space.
Oh Takashawa: Pretty much everything I’d want to say has already been said. I’m still not a fan of treating a symptom before you treat the disease, particularly if it’s done in a way that, as is CCP’s tendency, ends up crippling something rather than simply bringing it into balance. But we have literally zero details at this point, so any real conversation on the topic is meaningless. Which brings me to what really matters. As others have said, this was atrociously communicated. No details, shared through a new communications medium, with zero followup, is the kind of terrible communication we saw from CCP three and four years ago, and which we were promised was a thing of the past. Don’t bring that shit back, CCP. Keep your mouth shut until you’ve got a fully-formed thought to share with us, complete with details. This is a game that’s all about details, and a community that thrives on minutea. Give us that detail when you tell us something’s coming, or keep the announcement to yourselves until you can give us those details. This middle ground sucks.