CSM8: August Interview


In the third of a series of interviews I am carrying out over the 12 months they are in office, I virtually sit down with none other than the tenacious Mike Azariah and CSM8 Chairman, Trebor Daehdoow. We cover a lot of ground this time from the summer summit, the CSM ‘experience’, the ‘Reasonable Things’ project, csm8.org, and some of the uglier sides of Eve Online and what responsibility the CSM has in these situations.

CSM8_ August Interview.mp3

Screen Shot 2013-08-06 at 19.23.15

You can drop me an email at xander<at>crossingzebras.com or on twitter if you have any questions you want to ask before the next interview.

Fly safe,


Tags: csm, csm8, mike azariah, trebor

About the author

Xander Phoena

The good looking, funny, intelligent member of the team, Xander set up Crossing Zebras with Jeg in April 2012 mainly because he was talking too much about Eve on his other podcast. Playing the game for almost five years, Xander still has absolutely zero clue about how to actually play Eve but somehow still manages to talk a good game.

  • Troy Wexler

    I am generally a fan of Trebor but that bit about speaking politely is a bunch of crap. In a game where you kill people and break/steal their shit, we have to speak nicely at all times? What a typically American attitude: It’s okay to view the most graphic violence and engage in the most depraved human behavior (except nudity, because porn in fleet chat is harmful to queer female CSM members), but some strong words cross the line. If I wanted to play a watered down, politically-correct piece of shit, I’d take Mike’s advice and play WoW.

    • liner

      You got your ingame morals confused with human decency. Just because you can kill or scam a character using the game mechanics does not give you the right to be racist or sexist towards other players. This is what the EULA underlines.

      You are arguing that the game should abolish its ways to protect players (real people, not avatars)?

      • Troy Wexler

        I haven’t confused anything with anything. You seem to think that you can control the thoughts and actions of others by screaming about the EULA and then running to CCP to tattle when you don’t get your way. Let’s be clear about this. EVE is not a nice game. Its players are not nice people; in fact, the largest alliances and coalitions are made up of users of 4chan, Something Awful, Reddit, and other sites that host shocking and disturbing content. If you really play a game with this reputation and playerbase and expect to have a PG-rated experience, you are out of your mind.

        You can even make the same argument that Mike makes about the possibility of increasing subscriber numbers by getting rid of the existing playerbase and making player interaction a politically correct wonderland. I don’t buy that either. EVE is an old game with old graphics, old mechanics, and an old interface, and it shows. EVE will never have the sub numbers of WoW, or even SWTOR, because EVE is not a game where you can just show up to raids to get loot. The only reason people still play EVE is the same reason people still play Everquest: time invested and community. You want to change everything about the community because it isn’t politically correct enough for you. People like you are why we can’t have good shit on television. You refuse to stop watching or change the channel; you have to censor every thought or action that offends you.

        • liner

          This is hardly about censorship or being politically correct. You are upset that your selfshaped idea of being entitled to being rude is finally called out by fellow players.

          The eve community is not this group of horrible people playing a horrible game. Actions your character make are dubious but the players themselves are great people overall. Blogs fanfest meets and tweetfleet seem to support this.

          • Troy Wexler

            I never said EVE was a horrible game or that its players were horrible people. You are attacking a straw man.

            What I am saying is that most EVE players are not watered-down, bland, uninteresting pussies like you who take offense at their own shadow. The fact of the matter is that the playerbase as a whole decides how they interact, and it isn’t something you can force on us. If you had a majority of players on your side, you wouldn’t have to cower behind the EULA.

            Nobody is forcing you to interact with people you don’t like. Nobody is forcing you to click on links in chat. You have purposely sought out these experiences, and you continue to seek them out.

          • Kamar Raimo

            The whole thing about being offensive online is just so 20th century and not fun anymore. I’m not saying everything should be politically correct and fluffy bunnies, but defending the right to be a total retard is really not worth the effort

          • Troy Wexler

            This is a perfect example of my point. Your use of the word “retarded” is exactly the sort of thing that these politically correct assholes point out as inappropriate or bullying. Don’t believe me? Check these out:



            I am not advocating taunting the mentally handicapped, but these people are literally demanding that the entire world stop using certain adjectives because those words hurt their feelings.

          • Kamar Raimo

            I’m not so sure about that. To begin with, I didn’t even think of the word as something that only applies to mentally handicapped but generally to people with arrested development.
            I don’t know how far some people are willing to take it, but I had the impression that the issue was about using words that are not necessarily swearwords in a negative way. Like calling people Jews, or gay, or saying “don’t be such a girl.”.
            I dunno, I am not offended by all this, but it does make me take people way less seriously if they think it’s funny to use slurs like that or link offensive content in fleet/local chat. I used to do that kind of stuff when I was a teenager and so I consider people who still do it when in their 30s to be retards … in the sense of someone who has never grown out of being a teenager.

          • Troy Wexler

            You are only continuing to further my point. Hardly anybody in EVE is actually offended by using terms like “retarded”, “rape”, “Jew”, “gay”, “fag”, etc. It is just a small minority of players that are demanding that everyone else change.

            Also, your stance on the word “retard” is exactly the same stance most people have with the other terms you listed. We don’t call anyone a Jew because they are actually Jewish in real life. We don’t call people fags because they love the cock in real life. We don’t use the word rape to mean that we are going to find the person in real life and forcibly have sex with them against their will.

    • Trebor Daehdoow

      It is one thing to harvest tears by killing people and breaking/stealing their shit ingame. It is quite another to attempt to justify public racist/sexist/homophobic behavior as “roleplay” that is in the spirit of the game lore — quite frankly, that’s lame bullshit.

      I guess I’m from an older generation that demands a certain level of civility, even when pillaging.

      As for EVE players not being nice people, I find the vast majority of them, in person, and within their in-game groups (who know them), to be decent human beings. Most of them know the difference between acting like a scumbag and behaving like a scumbag. Sadly, some do not.

      • Troy Wexler

        It sounds like you have found a group that shares your value system. It is what I encourage everyone to do, because playing games with like-minded people is great fun.

        However, what I do not encourage is the belief that everyone in the game needs to share the same value system, or that everyone needs to get along with every other person in the game.

        If you don’t like a certain group of players, don’t play with them. Nothing is forcing you to do anything that is against your will. Nobody is twisting your arm behind your back and forcing you to read Harry Potter erotic fanfics. Nobody has a gun to your head and will shoot you if you don’t look at tranny midgets fucking each other in their colostomy holes. Your wife isn’t going to leave you if you refuse to read station names that spoil Game of Thrones.

  • IDoGAF

    Xander, you keep digging in on this racism/sexism in fleets issue. You yourself admit that there is no clearcut answer and that the entire topic is drenched in grey area, yet you badger every possible guest that might have a modicum of relevance to the topic into giving you an answer. Don’t get me wrong, I have no love for Trebor (DNS hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr) or Mike, but the answer to your increasingly pointed questions, especially from members of CSM, can’t possibly be anything else but ‘mu’ until CCP takes a stance, which they won’t. An apology by a commentator in the AT does not a company policy make.

    There’s a difference between good interviewing and trying to paint someone into a corner. I genuinely enjoy your podcast and the work you do, but when someone’s answer is IDGAF, leave it at that. They don’t NEED to GAF until CCP does, and all this talk of effecting change from the least common denominator up is wishful thinking at best.

    • xanderphoena

      The whole point of be bringing this stuff up with the CSM this time round was specifically the question of whether or not the CSM should be speaking to CCP about this stuff? Does it fall under their jurisdiction or not? Obviously with what happened with Dani, the topic had some new focus and direction. Note, it didn’t come up as a topic in CZ28.

      And hey, I am a wishful. That said, I’ll make a point of letting the subject be for now. Thanks for the feedback. As always, it is appreciated.

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